The Ultimate DIY Rocks!
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
Rhodophyta
New member
I think leaving it alone is usually the best method. It is like the pioneer's log cabins with dirt floors. Sweeping up a storm is not going to help. Or like getting the rind to form on certain kinds of cheeses. The more you mess around and fiddle, the more likely you are to ruin everything. I sometimes add oak leaves to the soak water, since they produce semi-permanent pigments on the rock that make them look more natural. They release tannins which don't seem as reactive as acid washes and big water changes but do gradually lower pH. If you have the uncontrollable urge to do something, adding a handful of oak leaves is less likely to harm things, and will make you feel like you have done something.
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
Rhodophyta makes a good point. Biofilms (beneficial bacterial slime) formed during the development of nitrifying bacteria are the key to completing the curing process of man made rock. Aggressive water changes and temperature extremes are not conducive to the growth of nitrifying bacteria. Stability is the key, and as Rhodophyta mentioned, this is best achieved with modest water changes and in salt water. The rock will cure faster chemically & biologically.
The PH test is more for monitoring changes so you know when to start adding livestock. Chemistry is different with different cement products and methods. I let the rock dry cure for a month to allow hydration to bond the calcium. I then fill the tank with tap water. I let it soak for a few days, then fill the tank with saltwater. I add hardy livestock right away.
The PH test is more for monitoring changes so you know when to start adding livestock. Chemistry is different with different cement products and methods. I let the rock dry cure for a month to allow hydration to bond the calcium. I then fill the tank with tap water. I let it soak for a few days, then fill the tank with saltwater. I add hardy livestock right away.
insanefishguy
New member
How do you want to spend the afterlife?
How do you want to spend the afterlife?
Ok, this is off topic but just to interesting not to share. There is a company out of Georgia that has the solution to a reef lovers afterlife wishes. BECOME PART OF THE REEF! They take your cremated ashes and mix it into reef safe cement and sink you down in Florida to become part of the reef for eternity.
http://www.eternalreefs.com/
How do you want to spend the afterlife?
Ok, this is off topic but just to interesting not to share. There is a company out of Georgia that has the solution to a reef lovers afterlife wishes. BECOME PART OF THE REEF! They take your cremated ashes and mix it into reef safe cement and sink you down in Florida to become part of the reef for eternity.
http://www.eternalreefs.com/
sikpupy
In Memoriam
Alright Insane Reefer, you little t**d, lol, you took down your PM link. How am I to PM you if you banquished the PM button??
Anyways, I FINALLY *remembered* to take some PH readings. Hey, I told you that you are getting them wether you want them or not! Soooooo, tap was 8.7 , waste was 8.6 and fresh RO/DI was 8.5
Sorry it took so long to get back to you. I have a memory like a canary
Mwhua!!
Anyways, I FINALLY *remembered* to take some PH readings. Hey, I told you that you are getting them wether you want them or not! Soooooo, tap was 8.7 , waste was 8.6 and fresh RO/DI was 8.5
Sorry it took so long to get back to you. I have a memory like a canary
Mwhua!!
texmexbigspring
New member
So are you saying that its best to leave the rock out for 28 days before soaking them. I made my first rock today and am not in a hurry to mess them up. These are some pretty decent sized peices. Any advice is greatly apreciated.
Thanks
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
Yes, let them air dry for a month. The hydration process that cement goes through allows the calcium to become part of the rock. Adding the rock to water before it cures fully will release calcium and other caustic constituents into your water. The rock will also be weakened by this process.
zachtos
Active member
Sorry for the big photo, but this tank is 50% live rock and 50% DIY rock. I made my rock nearly 2 years ago. Can you find it?
I used large salt pellets for big holes and regular portland cement. One other DIY rock piece in there is made of rubble rock and great stuff foam to form a big rock. I have no idea how much denitrification this rock provides, but just wanted to show you what I made years ago and see how everyone has advanced compared to that.
sikpupy
In Memoriam
Okay, so I have been thinking about the perlite. If that is spun glass beads or what have you, would that not raise the silicates in the tank? And I quote
"Basic facts about perlite
Perlite is not a trade name but a generic term for naturally occurring "siliceous rock".
The distinguishing feature which sets perlite apart from other volcanic glasses is that when heated to a suitable point in its softening range, it expands from four to twenty times its original volume.
This expansion is due to the presence of two to six percent combined water in the crude perlite rock. When quickly heated to above 1600°F (871°C), the crude rock pops in a manner similar to popcorn as the combined water vaporizes and creates countless tiny bubbles which account for the amazing light weight and other exceptional physical properties of expanded perlite.
This expansion process also creates one of perlite's most distinguishing characteristics: its white color. While the crude rock may range from transparent light gray to glossy black, the color of expanded perlite ranges from snowy white to grayish white.
Expanded perlite can be manufactured to weigh as little as 2 pounds per cubic foot making it adaptable for numerous applications.
Since perlite is a form of natural glass, it is classified as chemically inert and has a pH of approximately 7.
Perlite is mined and expanded all over the world. The United States is estimated to be the largest consumer and producer of crude and expanded perlite. However, there is very strong world wide production and consumption of perlite. Other leading countries producing perlite include China, Greece, Japan, Hungary, Armenia, Italy, Mexico, Philippines, and Turkey. "
So, silicates are bad for the tank, hence, perlite is bad? No one has questioned this so I am bringing it up. And, no, "its fine in my tank" is not an answer. :bum:
"Basic facts about perlite
Perlite is not a trade name but a generic term for naturally occurring "siliceous rock".
The distinguishing feature which sets perlite apart from other volcanic glasses is that when heated to a suitable point in its softening range, it expands from four to twenty times its original volume.
This expansion is due to the presence of two to six percent combined water in the crude perlite rock. When quickly heated to above 1600°F (871°C), the crude rock pops in a manner similar to popcorn as the combined water vaporizes and creates countless tiny bubbles which account for the amazing light weight and other exceptional physical properties of expanded perlite.
This expansion process also creates one of perlite's most distinguishing characteristics: its white color. While the crude rock may range from transparent light gray to glossy black, the color of expanded perlite ranges from snowy white to grayish white.
Expanded perlite can be manufactured to weigh as little as 2 pounds per cubic foot making it adaptable for numerous applications.
Since perlite is a form of natural glass, it is classified as chemically inert and has a pH of approximately 7.
Perlite is mined and expanded all over the world. The United States is estimated to be the largest consumer and producer of crude and expanded perlite. However, there is very strong world wide production and consumption of perlite. Other leading countries producing perlite include China, Greece, Japan, Hungary, Armenia, Italy, Mexico, Philippines, and Turkey. "
So, silicates are bad for the tank, hence, perlite is bad? No one has questioned this so I am bringing it up. And, no, "its fine in my tank" is not an answer. :bum:
sikpupy
In Memoriam
Very small amounts indeed, but, take a whole bag of silicate rock and throw some concrete in and what happens?
What are you running for filteration, GFO or anything? You may just be filtering out all the extra. Some have horrid blooms and others do not.
Hey, all i know is the consensous is say to stay away from silicates.
What are you running for filteration, GFO or anything? You may just be filtering out all the extra. Some have horrid blooms and others do not.
Hey, all i know is the consensous is say to stay away from silicates.
Insane Reefer
New member
The glass of your tank is made of silicates too - does that cause a problem?
Silicates are only a problem when they are "free" - able to be taken up by the system, such as in liquid feeds, etc.
A sample of perlite in RO/DI, which sat for 1 month, and then tested for silicates showed no perceptible rise in the silicate count - you get more "free" silicates from a sample of cement than you do from perlite...
I've made and sold more than 2 tons of the perlite rock, and NO-ONE has complained that it is messing up their tank or releasing silicates; or at least if they have, the store folk aren't telling me about it...
Silicates are only a problem when they are "free" - able to be taken up by the system, such as in liquid feeds, etc.
A sample of perlite in RO/DI, which sat for 1 month, and then tested for silicates showed no perceptible rise in the silicate count - you get more "free" silicates from a sample of cement than you do from perlite...
I've made and sold more than 2 tons of the perlite rock, and NO-ONE has complained that it is messing up their tank or releasing silicates; or at least if they have, the store folk aren't telling me about it...
sikpupy
In Memoriam
Hi Insane, how are you? (blushing by your presence) Ahem............ well, true, but, tank glass has been heated and melted together, making it solid, hard and VERY dense object. Perlite on the other hand is soft, light weight, easily made into a powder if handled too much. Now, if perlite has been tested like you say and comes back with no trace amounts in the water higher than what the RO was before the perlite was added, then I may stand corrected, which is fine by me. Then you go on to say that concrete gives off more silicates than perlite, hmm...... If in fact the above is true then, I would say it sounds good to go.
Ahem............ well, true, but, tank glass has been heated and melted together, making it solid, hard and VERY dense object. Perlite on the other hand is soft, light weight, easily made into a powder if handled too much. Now, if perlite has been tested like you say and comes back with no trace amounts in the water higher than what the RO was before the perlite was added, then I may stand corrected, which is fine by me. Then you go on to say that concrete gives off more silicates than perlite, hmm...... If in fact the above is true then, I would say it sounds good to go.texmexbigspring
New member
Just curious if anyone is still using the salt rock method? And what sucess have you had with it? Thanks
texmexbigspring
New member
?
mrpenguin
New member
WOW, this is allot to read .... think its been split 7 times.
Anyway, been spending the last 4 days reading all of this and went out today and bought some stuff.
Seems like things had slowed down a bit on this forum the last 6 months so i hope somebody can help me with my questions.
Its a shame I found out 5 pages ago Insane reefer has decided to not be involved anymore because I was looking forward to start posting once I have read through 300 pages.
My questions :
I was at out local Feed store and asked for Calcium Carbonate, the guy looked on his computer and gave me a bag that says : Limestone - feedgrade 2
Is this the right stuff ?
I also got a bag full of white sand and all it says is Silica #16 from the same store.
Is this good to use as sand to mix in with the cement ?
In the beginning of all this reading everybody was saying that Portland no 3 was the best to use because it has lower PH but then a few pages ago it said that Portland no 3 was not a good cement to use .... why is this ?
Have also been reading about how heat will speed up the curing .... as in Insane Reefers steam room thing.
I was wondering if using a heat lamp like the one they use for lizards will work for heat if i put some water on the bottom of a container, put the rock on eggcrate above the water and put the heat lamp inside the container and close it ...
This should keep the temp inside the container nice and warm and condensation would keep the rock most all day.
Anyway, been spending the last 4 days reading all of this and went out today and bought some stuff.
Seems like things had slowed down a bit on this forum the last 6 months so i hope somebody can help me with my questions.
Its a shame I found out 5 pages ago Insane reefer has decided to not be involved anymore because I was looking forward to start posting once I have read through 300 pages.
My questions :
I was at out local Feed store and asked for Calcium Carbonate, the guy looked on his computer and gave me a bag that says : Limestone - feedgrade 2
Is this the right stuff ?
I also got a bag full of white sand and all it says is Silica #16 from the same store.
Is this good to use as sand to mix in with the cement ?
In the beginning of all this reading everybody was saying that Portland no 3 was the best to use because it has lower PH but then a few pages ago it said that Portland no 3 was not a good cement to use .... why is this ?
Have also been reading about how heat will speed up the curing .... as in Insane Reefers steam room thing.
I was wondering if using a heat lamp like the one they use for lizards will work for heat if i put some water on the bottom of a container, put the rock on eggcrate above the water and put the heat lamp inside the container and close it ...
This should keep the temp inside the container nice and warm and condensation would keep the rock most all day.
texmexbigspring
New member
?????????
?????????
So is nobody using the rock salt anymore? Any one still have some of this rock in there tank?
?????????
So is nobody using the rock salt anymore? Any one still have some of this rock in there tank?
stormrider27
Member
Talk about a time warp....
Talk about a time warp....
Well after four straight days of reading I have gone from 2005 to 2009. My eyes are watering, my neck hurts and my brain really hurts!
First of all a big thanks to all that have contributed to this thread especially IR, mr wilson, Travis and the inventor of Inuckshuk rock (sorry I don't remember your user name). Now on to a quick question.
mr wilson, are you sealing the styrofoam prior to applying the cement and how in the world are you kurring such large pieces?
I had an idea about 200 posts ago that may help speed up the kurring process. My idea is to take one of those vacuum bags like people but blankets in and suck out all the air, attach a one way nipple, place the MMLR in the bag, suck out the air and replace the air with C02. Does anyone think that would help reduce the kurring time?
Again great thread!!!!
Talk about a time warp....
Well after four straight days of reading I have gone from 2005 to 2009. My eyes are watering, my neck hurts and my brain really hurts!
First of all a big thanks to all that have contributed to this thread especially IR, mr wilson, Travis and the inventor of Inuckshuk rock (sorry I don't remember your user name). Now on to a quick question.
mr wilson, are you sealing the styrofoam prior to applying the cement and how in the world are you kurring such large pieces?
I had an idea about 200 posts ago that may help speed up the kurring process. My idea is to take one of those vacuum bags like people but blankets in and suck out all the air, attach a one way nipple, place the MMLR in the bag, suck out the air and replace the air with C02. Does anyone think that would help reduce the kurring time?
Again great thread!!!!
