The Ultimate DIY Rocks!

[buddy381]

question regarding the cure process (sorry as i have read this thread probably 3-4 splits ago and i didn't take the time to read all 30 or so pages.)....i made some diy live rock with portland cement, cc, and sand. i let it sit in the sand mixture for a week or so....i then rinsed it and let it sit dry for a couple weeks....after that i let it sit in fresh water for a few months....my water changes were fairly often at first, but then i got busy and it slowed down....the rock then sat dry for another few months....i recently started my tank up and was going to put the rock in the tank.....the next day i noticed a whiteish film over everything....heaters, glass, powerheads.....what is this and how can i remove it? Will the water still be ok for fish if the ph etc is ok? do i just need to cure the rock longer? i made rock once before and it is doing great (covered in corraline, see pods etc in the rock)

i really don't want to have to get a new bucket of salt to refill my tank and i need to get this film off as it doesn't really just easily wipe off....any suggestions?

 

[DeathWish302]

That 'film' COATS all of my kure bins regardless if I drop the rock in the bin 3 days after sitting in the casting sand or 28 days. The calcium from the calcium hydroxide is binding with carbonate that is dissolving from the soft water and depositing on any surface it can find. A vinegar bath (or sulphuric acid if your impatient) is the only way to painlessly remove it. I would honestly take the tank down if it was acrylic due to the amount of scratches it would have after cleaning it with a scraper. What was the pH of the kure container before you placed it in the tank? I have placed frag plugs in a tank 2 weeks after casting, but that was a tiny volume versus a full tank or rock. I wouldn't scrap the water, as it should be fine if it has a good pH. If it is still milky, run it through some coffee filters to catch the fine particles. By the method you used it doesn't sound like you did anything wrong as I've had rock leave that residue 6-8 months after casting when I've just let the rock sit in kuring tubs with no water changes in the last months of it's life in the container.

Just my experience, as I'm learning everyday about this rock. Like silica fume sounds like a must for longevity and of course I can't find it anywhere local as of yet.... The saga continues.

I found an interesting article on mixing silica fume into the mix. Sounds very specific on small batch mixing, which may come in handy for you Christian.
http://www.silicafume.org/pdf/concrete-labmix.pdf

From what I've read so far, you need 1part silica fume to 80parts remaining ingredients. Where do you get your mix Shawn? Is it from a dist. or an actual mixer company?

 

[Electrobes]

That 'film' COATS all of my kure bins regardless if I drop the rock in the bin 3 days after sitting in the casting sand or 28 days. The calcium from the calcium hydroxide is binding with carbonate that is dissolving from the soft water and depositing on any surface it can find. A vinegar bath (or sulphuric acid if your impatient) is the only way to painlessly remove it. I would honestly take the tank down if it was acrylic due to the amount of scratches it would have after cleaning it with a scraper. What was the pH of the kure container before you placed it in the tank? I have placed frag plugs in a tank 2 weeks after casting, but that was a tiny volume versus a full tank or rock. I wouldn't scrap the water, as it should be fine if it has a good pH. If it is still milky, run it through some coffee filters to catch the fine particles. By the method you used it doesn't sound like you did anything wrong as I've had rock leave that residue 6-8 months after casting when I've just let the rock sit in kuring tubs with no water changes in the last months of it's life in the container.

Just my experience, as I'm learning everyday about this rock. Like silica fume sounds like a must for longevity and of course I can't find it anywhere local as of yet.... The saga continues.

I found an interesting article on mixing silica fume into the mix. Sounds very specific on small batch mixing, which may come in handy for you Christian.
http://www.silicafume.org/pdf/concrete-labmix.pdf

From what I've read so far, you need 1part silica fume to 80parts remaining ingredients. Where do you get your mix Shawn? Is it from a dist. or an actual mixer company?

Thanks for the link, I saw that in my blitz of renewed rock learning. :lol:

I've contacted a company about Silica Fume, I was directed by silicafume.org's personnel. Though he said I'll have to get a pallet.. I tried asking for bags anyway... considering that's the company's sample size

Another interesting thing... apparently they have "white" silica fume. Included in the email with quantity questions, I also asked about the difference between "white" silica fume and densified silica fume (More commonly used silica fume).

Hopefully I'll get an answer tomorrow.

 

[DeathWish302]

Thanks for the link, I saw that in my blitz of renewed rock learning. :lol:

I've contacted a company about Silica Fume, I was directed by silicafume.org's personnel. Though he said I'll have to get a pallet.. I tried asking for bags anyway... considering that's the company's sample size

Another interesting thing... apparently they have "white" silica fume. Included in the email with quantity questions, I also asked about the difference between "white" silica fume and densified silica fume (More commonly used silica fume).

Hopefully I'll get an answer tomorrow.

If you get any larger amount, I'd be willing to buy a bag from you. I'd even take 5 lbs or so. If it is truly 1:80 (silica fume:remaining ingredient), a 50lb bag would last me for life!!!:bigeyes:

I'll see if W.R.Grace even contacts me tomorrow...

Nevermind.... Reefballs.org states 50lbs:3800lbs (silica fume: remaining ingredients including water). This equates to 1:76. Close enough:lol:

Keep us posted what you find out on the silica fume.... I'm super paranoid about my rock I have made in the past 5 years now!!!

 

[Electrobes]

I wouldn't be worried TBH. Many, many rock builder have not used silica fume and most aren't having troubles with their rock. Silica fume is more of a monster help than a necessity. But it's definitely a help that I'm very interested in using.

I took a look at reefball and I am confused by the porportions. According to the silica fume websites, the mixture of cement to silica fume is around 10:1. Apparently silica fume should be about 10% of the cement portion. Not sure why reefball has a different mixture.

 

[Electrobes]

Well I am definitely hitting walls with my search for silica fume. I've been calling cement plants all over the state with no luck, heck just about all of them didn't even know what it was, even after describing it. I would have thought maybe something like wells would use concrete that contained silica fume at the very least.

Oh well I am still trying, I am hoping one of the actual manufacturers/distributors are willing to sell me bags.

 

[DeathWish302]

Well I am definitely hitting walls with my search for silica fume. I've been calling cement plants all over the state with no luck, heck just about all of them didn't even know what it was, even after describing it. I would have thought maybe something like wells would use concrete that contained silica fume at the very least.

Oh well I am still trying, I am hoping one of the actual manufacturers/distributors are willing to sell me bags.

The W.R.Grace rep called..... I can get silica fume in huge bags (1m^3) or in smaller bags......if I buy at least 3 of the huge bags or 3 pallets or the smaller bags....and submit a RFQ....and issue a PO. Sarbanes-Oxley is such a pain! Thanks ENRON! So much for the silica fume for now...

 

[Electrobes]

Yikes, yep that would be huge. :lol:

 

[Electrobes]

I wanted to pipe in that I changed the water in the tubs of rock... and instead of 130F I tried 74F. In two days the pH went from 11 and change to 9.17 (Rock was tested in salt water)! Talk about awesome.

 

[jnarowe]

go big or go home!

 

[Electrobes]

:lol:

Going small! Ug I found a leak in one of the tubs... irritating! On top of that my idiot self left a hose filling a tube for about 45 minutes... ARGH!

 

[mr.wilson]

:lol:

Going small! Ug I found a leak in one of the tubs... irritating! On top of that my idiot self left a hose filling a tube for about 45 minutes... ARGH!

With the artistic impact we bring to the table we also bring a side serving of dumb ***

Do yourself a favour and buy a high volume float valve. I use a cylindrical (cowbell) one that is designed for livestock troughs. It has a small footprint so you can attach it to your fill hose and get full line pressure. Phone calls and other distractions happen. The mechanical float valve is always on duty. I put mine on a PVC J-tube with a clamp to set the water level shut-off. The J-tube itself will give you a default shut-off about 6" below the surface of the container you are filling.

 

[Electrobes]

Yeah I have no excuse for not having one already. It just extra sucks because it got the insulation on the tub wet, which will take a while to dry out with this weather.

Did you get my PM Shawn? Wasn't sure if it was too business related (That's why I sent a PM instead of posting here), last thing I need is an RC mod getting mad at me.

 

[mr.wilson]

Yeah I have no excuse for not having one already. It just extra sucks because it got the insulation on the tub wet, which will take a while to dry out with this weather.

Did you get my PM Shawn? Wasn't sure if it was too business related (That's why I sent a PM instead of posting here), last thing I need is an RC mod getting mad at me.

I got the PM thanks, just looking for time to get back to you.

Floods and water spills will continue. You should switch to expandable spray foam applied directly to the tub. You can cover the outside with concrete to make it look like a giant boulder

Alternatively, you could just wrap the fiberglass/rockwool with foil wrap to reflect the long wave radiation back into the tub.
http://www.insul.net/prod_astrofoil_all.html

Yup, more time and more money

 

[michaelalan]

I was able to find a 5 or 10 lb of silica fume from grace construction. I think I posted the contact info way back when.

 

[Electrobes]

I contacted them and am awaiting reply. I found some of their distributors in my area, but none of them sell ANY of the three components (Silica Fume, Adva 140M, or Fibermesh) I am looking for. So I contacted the sales rep for the south eastern USA area... hopefully he can work something out for me. I'd love to just get all of my stuff from one place, as opposed to coordinating the other components from other places.

 

[Electrobes]

I got the PM thanks, just looking for time to get back to you.

Floods and water spills will continue. You should switch to expandable spray foam applied directly to the tub. You can cover the outside with concrete to make it look like a giant boulder

Alternatively, you could just wrap the fiberglass/rockwool with foil wrap to reflect the long wave radiation back into the tub.
http://www.insul.net/prod_astrofoil_all.html

Yup, more time and more money

I figure that once I get my greenhouse, I won't have to worry about that. It sucks to know I am moving and can't do anything more permanent or big until I get to my new location (i.e. the tubs have to remain portable for now). At least I'll be getting a greenhouse of out the move!

 

[michaelalan]

I remember that fiber mesh, looked like just what we need.

Here couldn't find my contact at Grace Construction, I remember calling around in circles and finally getting back to them and the phone rep was like, "Oh, we have that in a 25lb bag. Will that work?"

And I was like, "***, why didn't the first gal offer that?"

Anyways here is some info on the bag that might help when ordering.

Force D 10,000
Label Spec. No 209-02-99
Phone number from the bag, 617-876-1400.

 

[mr.wilson]

The fiber mesh looks expensive at first, but it fluffs up a lot and a small handful will do a whole wheelbarrow of cement. If you use too much, the mix is thin (top coat), or you work the fibers to the surface, the fibers will stick out. I use a torch to burn off the loose ends, if there are any. In some cases they offer welcome added texture.

 

[Electrobes]

I remember that fiber mesh, looked like just what we need.

Here couldn't find my contact at Grace Construction, I remember calling around in circles and finally getting back to them and the phone rep was like, "Oh, we have that in a 25lb bag. Will that work?"

And I was like, "***, why didn't the first gal offer that?"

Anyways here is some info on the bag that might help when ordering.

Force D 10,000
Label Spec. No 209-02-99
Phone number from the bag, 617-876-1400.

Thanks for the info, at this rate I just hope they get back to me. Did they have to ship from a distant warehouse, or was there something more local for you?