The Ultimate DIY Rocks!

mr.wilson said:
Chlorine would off-gas quickly and leave no residual. You may have phosphate bind if your water company uses phosphate-based pipe cleaners. Cement absorbs phosphate readily. An acid wash will remove it though. You won't fit many rocks in the toilet tank and you may mess up your float if you aren't careful.

Remember to drink lots of beer to keep the water changes frequent :)
Click to expand...
wow!:eek1:
curing rocks in a toilet tank? i would have never thought of that
well you learn something new every day
 
der_wille_zur_macht said:
I'm lazy enough that I want to make this all from easy, local ingredients. I have access to:

1) Regular old Quickrete Type I portland cement (Home Depot)
2) White play sand, which is clearly silica (HD, again)
3) Several big bags of crushed coral left over from other projects (my basement!)

The only thing that seems questionable is the silica sand. Last time, I used aragonite sand, since it was easily available locally (the famous Southdown sand, which isn't stocked around here any more, even under the various alternative brandings). Is this OK?

I've seen reference that silica sand is safe, but it always seems to be made in passing. I disn't seem to notice that any of the major players in this thread using it. I could go spend roughly $1/pound on aragonite sand at the LFS, but I'd rather not if I don't need to.

Last time I made it, I did the classic water curing process - a few days after molding, I put the pieces in a trashcan full of water, and changed the water every few days for a month. This time, I'm gonna try letting them sit more or less dry for a few weeks, then a quicker water cure (hopefully).

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I made a batch with the same ingredients, including the play sand. I did one part concrete, two parts sand, two parts crushed coral and one part ziti. I let it set up for 4 days before curing it in water. I changed the fresh water everyday for about 3 weeks. During this time I saved the saltwater from my water changes. After three weeks of freshwater curing I did an additional week in the old saltwater.

The ziti decayed away and after a good rinsing in hot tap water it left a nice texture to the rock.

After adding the rock to my tank I had a small diatom outbreak, I assume from the silica in the play sand. There was no change in my pH. I added a some phoszorb and fresh carbon to my hang back filter and used a turkey baster daily to blow off the diatoms. After about a week it cleared up.

The rocks have been in the tank about a month. Is just starting to get some corraline growth. I'm happy with the cheap rock. I might have avoided the diatoms by using better sand, but it really wasn't that big of a deal.
 
der_wille_zur_macht said:
I've seen reference that silica sand is safe, but it always seems to be made in passing. I disn't seem to notice that any of the major players in this thread using it. I could go spend roughly $1/pound on aragonite sand at the LFS, but I'd rather not if I don't need to.
Click to expand...

I have NEVER used aragonite sand in MM rock. I have used silica sand in this rock, in previous DSB & in frag plugs with no harmful effects. I even have silica sand from FL in my latest rock made in the past 6 months. No problems ever. Do watch the playsand at the big chain stores, as sometimes the sand has quite a bit of silt. I rinse the sand that looks too brownish several times before using to get any organics and clay out before using in rock.
 
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der_wille_zur_macht said:
All,

I made a whole bunch of rock several years ago for a few tanks (before this thread originally took off), but haven't made any since. I'm about to start making rock for a ~250g. I really enjoyed both the process and the result last time - for me, it was one of the most creative aspects of setting up those tanks. What I'd like is if a few of the experienced rock makers could give me a gut check before I actually get started this time, since it's been a few years.

I'm lazy enough that I want to make this all from easy, local ingredients. I have access to:

1) Regular old Quickrete Type I portland cement (Home Depot)
2) White play sand, which is clearly silica (HD, again)
3) Several big bags of crushed coral left over from other projects (my basement!)

The only thing that seems questionable is the silica sand. Last time, I used aragonite sand, since it was easily available locally (the famous Southdown sand, which isn't stocked around here any more, even under the various alternative brandings). Is this OK?

I've seen reference that silica sand is safe, but it always seems to be made in passing. I disn't seem to notice that any of the major players in this thread using it. I could go spend roughly $1/pound on aragonite sand at the LFS, but I'd rather not if I don't need to.

Last time I made it, I did the classic water curing process - a few days after molding, I put the pieces in a trashcan full of water, and changed the water every few days for a month. This time, I'm gonna try letting them sit more or less dry for a few weeks, then a quicker water cure (hopefully).

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I am one of the people who try to dispel the myths surrounding silica sand. RHF wrote a great article about it, also summarizing Bingman's findings.

The hardest part about using silica sand from places like HD is that while about 98% of the bag really is quartz, it's the other 2 percent we don't know, the mystery stuff. Pure silica sand is white, as quartz is white in nature, but the slight browning you get with that sand comes from that other 2%, which is typically dust or superbly pulverized quartz.

I think it is fine, but I would try to find the purest bag of silica sand as possible. The reason why I use aragonite is more of an advertisement thing than anything else. Hobbyists just feel safer knowing I used it over silica sand.
 
Electrobes said:
I am one of the people who try to dispel the myths surrounding silica sand. RHF wrote a great article about it, also summarizing Bingman's findings.

The hardest part about using silica sand from places like HD is that while about 98% of the bag really is quartz, it's the other 2 percent we don't know, the mystery stuff. Pure silica sand is white, as quartz is white in nature, but the slight browning you get with that sand comes from that other 2%, which is typically dust or superbly pulverized quartz.

I think it is fine, but I would try to find the purest bag of silica sand as possible. The reason why I use aragonite is more of an advertisement thing than anything else. Hobbyists just feel safer knowing I used it over silica sand.
Click to expand...

If you really want to impress them use lobster shells. Maybe a premium line made with bald Eagle shells :)
 
FWIW, the silica playsand I was considering is extremely white - not the gray/brown stuff you see on beaches sometimes. It's also fairly good grain size, with very low dust. I don't have the brand name off the top of my head, but it was essentially the "premium" playsand at Home Depot, not the cheap bulk stuff that looks like dirt. Still only ~$5 for 20 lbs. though.
 
I would say the whiter the better chance it's alright. You may want to rinse it just to try to get the dust out.
 
der_wille_zur_macht said:
FWIW, the silica playsand I was considering is extremely white - not the gray/brown stuff you see on beaches sometimes. It's also fairly good grain size, with very low dust. I don't have the brand name off the top of my head, but it was essentially the "premium" playsand at Home Depot, not the cheap bulk stuff that looks like dirt. Still only ~$5 for 20 lbs. though.
Click to expand...

I will warn you if you rinse the HD/Lowe's Quikrete Premium Playsand don't expect a snow white color after a couple rinses. I tried rinsing some of the whitest they had on the pallet that started as a cream color. After rinsing as much silt, clay, twigs & other dirt I could with 6-8 rinses in small batches, the color when dried was a minimal shade lighter than the unwashed. I think a better approach may be a fine mesh shifting and then the finest mesh you can find to get the dusty stuff out. I have also thought about just buying the white silica sand from the LFS, but that defeats the purpose of $5/50lb.
 
Of course this is while I'm sitting here in sight of a 25# bag of LFS pure white aragonite sand I bought for a buck at a local fish club auction, but...

What about using hydrogen peroxide after a rinse or two? It would lift and bubble out much of the organics, and lighten the gravel itself.
 
DeathWish302 said:
I will warn you if you rinse the HD/Lowe's Quikrete Premium Playsand don't expect a snow white color after a couple rinses. I tried rinsing some of the whitest they had on the pallet that started as a cream color. After rinsing as much silt, clay, twigs & other dirt I could with 6-8 rinses in small batches, the color when dried was a minimal shade lighter than the unwashed. I think a better approach may be a fine mesh shifting and then the finest mesh you can find to get the dusty stuff out. I have also thought about just buying the white silica sand from the LFS, but that defeats the purpose of $5/50lb.
Click to expand...

I picked up 100lbs for $8 from a landscaping wholesaler here locally and it was white as aragonite even after rinsing. Great stuff. Using it in my next tank too.
 
I just bought a bunch of supplies to make some rock. I procured 80 lbs of portland type I/II cement (I thought I would be able to find type V living close to the coast), play sand (still have to vinegar test), and the water softening salt. I could not find perlite at my Home Depot, but I did get some of that styrofoam that crumbles into balls. Would the styrofoam be ok to use, or should I delay my project another week and track down some perlite locally?
 
I would not use styrofoam. It's a petrol-based product, which will more than likely cause problems in the tank. I would continue to find a perlite source (It's puffed glass, which is why it's nice to use as it's fairly inert).

The sand you are wanting to use... why vinegar test it? Is it quartz sand or aragonite?
 
Don't worry about the vinegar test. Silica sand is just fine for making MMLR. Silica will actually make a stronger rock as it is a part of the chemical reaction that occurs when cement cures. I wouldn't use play sand for this though. You want one of the cleaned and dried products that looks white or whitish in color. The brown stuff is got lord know what in it and I wouldn't trust it in my tank.

As for the water softening salt. Put it in your water softener. Salt will only serve to make your rock weak and brittle. The only place you should use salt is for creating tunnels and large openings in the rock and even then sand is a much better option.

Perlite is by no means a needed part of the mix. You can use it and it will reduce the weight to volume ratio of your rock but that comes at a significant increase in cost. Your best option for an aggregate hands down is oyster shell. It's cheap, readily available, and calcium based.
 
Anyone that wondered where to get the silica fume and fibermesh... Todd Barber form Reefball returned my inquiry.

Re: Microsilica & Fibermesh 150‏
From: Todd Barber (reefball@reefball.com)

You can get from reef innovations 941 650 2519

HTH
 
cmpenney said:
As for the water softening salt. Put it in your water softener. Salt will only serve to make your rock weak and brittle. The only place you should use salt is for creating tunnels and large openings in the rock and even then sand is a much better option.

QUOTE]

Not an absolute on that. I used a decent amount of water softener salt and I can stand on the rock I made. I'm very happy with my results. Here is a tank with 90% MMLR after about a year:

<img src="http://www.goldmaniac.com/fishtank/fishtank_20090710/right_corner_FTS_450.jpg" border="0" alt="">

and here they are when I first made them, so you can see that standing on these guys requires some strength:

<img src="http://www.goldmaniac.com/fishtank/mm_live_rock_sept_07/bridges.jpg" border="0" alt="">

<img src="http://www.goldmaniac.com/fishtank/mm_live_rock_sept_07/bridges_close.jpg" border="0" alt="">


<img src="http://www.goldmaniac.com/fishtank/mm_live_rock_sept_07/bridges_close2.jpg" border="0" alt="">
Click to expand...
 
Chemically it is true that the salt retards the "curing" of the rock. It all depends on just how much of the process has been retarded by the salt. Considering everyone's rocks are unique cases.. some will see it more than others.
 
Either you got lucky or you have been doing this for some time know when and how much salt to add and when. For someone doing this the first time I highly discourage using salt. I've seen too many people end up with very brittle rock that falls apart easily and then they never try again. For your first time stick to ingredients that it's hard to mess up with.

What good does salt really do anyways? I've made rock over the years using just about any recipe you can imagine and I have to say that using salt adds no real improvements to the final rock that can't be achieved with other ingredients have have no downside and a bit of practice.
 
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