It seems that reef-keepers have abandoned wet-dry filters and bio-balls but experienced filter manufactures continue to offer both. Why? I believe that Eheim has smart experienced aquarium scientists on board as they sell a wet dry canister. Red sea and other all-in-one companies sell bio-balls with current offerings. How can these ideas be discounted while supported by the industry? Who ever studies the comparison between the different filtration systems prospectively in a controlled manner: no-one yet one or more of of the companies sinking money into product development, in a cost/benefit manner.
The wet-dry Filter debate, why?
- Thread starter mmfish
- Start date
GSMguy
New member
What experienced companies have come out with a NEW wet dry product in the last 5 years? The wet dry still has it's place outside the reef enviroment.
Those still selling bioballs and wet drys are not targeting toward the discerning reef hobbiest, the people who buy them for reefs have Not yet discovered the intra web (noobies)
If you go to petco you will still find undergravel filter that doesn't mean they are better than protein skimmers.
Those still selling bioballs and wet drys are not targeting toward the discerning reef hobbiest, the people who buy them for reefs have Not yet discovered the intra web (noobies)
If you go to petco you will still find undergravel filter that doesn't mean they are better than protein skimmers.
luther1200
Premium Member
Who knows why, but if you read up on them you will see why they are "nitrate factories".
luther1200
Premium Member
And the fact that they are under hardly any SW tanks now should be a big hint.
When I got my 65 in 2006 the LFS also sold me a Modle 1 AGA wet/dry. For the first year I couldn't get my NO3 under 20. I slowly removed the bio-balls and added cheato and they dropped to 0 in under a week.
When I got my 65 in 2006 the LFS also sold me a Modle 1 AGA wet/dry. For the first year I couldn't get my NO3 under 20. I slowly removed the bio-balls and added cheato and they dropped to 0 in under a week.
bradbmbj
New member
Heres a little more in detail about the way Bioballs work. They work by giving surface area for various types of nitrifying bacteria to grow on, these bacteria feed on the ammonia and nitrite and break it down into the less harmful nitrate. This is why they work well with all the little pins giving alot of surface area, the problem comes when we don't keep them clean often enough and waste is allowed to acumilate in them. Most people don't need them in a reef tank with live rock as the rock is very porous and has a lot of surface area for the bacteria to grow on. Hope this makes sense
luther1200
Premium Member
I think the major flaw, is that they are excellent at braking down Ammonia and Nitrite into Nitrate. But they lack the low oxygen areas for the bacteria to colonize to finish the job. Where LR has both high O2 area's on the surface and low O2 area's deep within.
luther1200
Premium Member
You could get a more detailed answer in the Reef Chemistry forum.
luther1200
Premium Member
This is a good thread to read up on it
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1631907&highlight=Wet/dry+filters
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1631907&highlight=Wet/dry+filters
PowermanKW
New member
I don't have the most experience, but I was not afraid of my W/D. The PO took the bio balls out... I put ceramic rings back in. My nitrates were always zero.
W/D do what they do very well. They have lots of surface area to expose oxygen loving bacteria to break down ammonia and nitrites. They have a lot of surface area to oxygenate the water.
Every tank has nitrates to remove. Either by sand, LR, algae, or water changes. That does not change one bit if you have a W/D. I would use one in a fish only or FOWLR. I mechanically filtered my water well before my bio chamber and kept my media clean. Bottom line is that W/D filters do not PRODUCE nitrates from thin air. Nitrates only come from the food input to the tanks, which either rots, or is ate, then excreeted, then broke down by bacteria.
The only thing is that in a well run reef tank, they are simply unneeded. Most run a sand bed of at least 3" and use adequate amounts of LR. Throw in a fuge and what's the point? Not only is there plenty of surface area for nitrate reduction, there is plenty of room for oxygen loving bacteria too. And they live side by side as oxygen gets depleted in the sand and rock. So my opinion is that W/Ds are not bad for reef tanks, they are just uneeded.
W/D do what they do very well. They have lots of surface area to expose oxygen loving bacteria to break down ammonia and nitrites. They have a lot of surface area to oxygenate the water.
Every tank has nitrates to remove. Either by sand, LR, algae, or water changes. That does not change one bit if you have a W/D. I would use one in a fish only or FOWLR. I mechanically filtered my water well before my bio chamber and kept my media clean. Bottom line is that W/D filters do not PRODUCE nitrates from thin air. Nitrates only come from the food input to the tanks, which either rots, or is ate, then excreeted, then broke down by bacteria.
The only thing is that in a well run reef tank, they are simply unneeded. Most run a sand bed of at least 3" and use adequate amounts of LR. Throw in a fuge and what's the point? Not only is there plenty of surface area for nitrate reduction, there is plenty of room for oxygen loving bacteria too. And they live side by side as oxygen gets depleted in the sand and rock. So my opinion is that W/Ds are not bad for reef tanks, they are just uneeded.
luther1200
Premium Member
The fact still remains that they lack the low O2 area's to take the next step in the Nitrogen cycle. So they basically stop the process at the point where Nitrate's are formed. That is why they have been dubbed "NO3 factories".
PowermanKW
New member
I understand that, but that is not their job. Their job is to expose surface area to air for bacteria to break down ammonia and nitrites. Two things that will kill things quickly. They do that job very well.
Nitrates are tolerable. It isn't a W/D job to reduce nitrates, and that is not what they are bought for. A DSB and live rock can do both with adequate amounts, but I would argue that a trickle filter is much better at ammonia and nitrite reduction.
I still say though that I don't see the need. There are much more beneficial ways to manage wastes in a reef tank with protien skimming, LR/LS, and fuges/turf scrubbers.
I'm not arguing for their use, I guess I'm saying I don't find them to be as evil as they are made out to be. YMMV
Nitrates are tolerable. It isn't a W/D job to reduce nitrates, and that is not what they are bought for. A DSB and live rock can do both with adequate amounts, but I would argue that a trickle filter is much better at ammonia and nitrite reduction.
I still say though that I don't see the need. There are much more beneficial ways to manage wastes in a reef tank with protien skimming, LR/LS, and fuges/turf scrubbers.
I'm not arguing for their use, I guess I'm saying I don't find them to be as evil as they are made out to be. YMMV
I wouldn't use a wet dry filter on a reef tank for a few reasons -
-Ammonia/nitrite toxicity are rarely a proplem in reef tanks while phosphate/nitrate toxicity and/or algae overgrowth are
-They add complexity
-They add cost (although you can make one for a few dollars
-They require mechanical filters (which basically take particulates that would be food for corals and turn them into dissolved substances that can be toxic to corals)
These filters still sell well for good reason - they are the best filter option for many freshwater tanks, aquatic turtles, and fish only marine systems. In these tanks they help keep dissolved oxygen high, toxic nitrogen species low, keep heaters away from animals that could break them or get injured by them, are better performing than canister filters, and are easier to maintain than canister filters.
-Ammonia/nitrite toxicity are rarely a proplem in reef tanks while phosphate/nitrate toxicity and/or algae overgrowth are
-They add complexity
-They add cost (although you can make one for a few dollars
-They require mechanical filters (which basically take particulates that would be food for corals and turn them into dissolved substances that can be toxic to corals)
These filters still sell well for good reason - they are the best filter option for many freshwater tanks, aquatic turtles, and fish only marine systems. In these tanks they help keep dissolved oxygen high, toxic nitrogen species low, keep heaters away from animals that could break them or get injured by them, are better performing than canister filters, and are easier to maintain than canister filters.
luther1200
Premium Member
When I set up my tank with the wet/dry, I was told that was all I needed. I have never once heard a wet/dry manufacturer claim it wasn't there job to reduce NO3. In fact they claim just the opposite.
PowermanKW
New member
That would be a neat trick. I would like to know how they claim to biologically reduce nitrates in an oxygen rich environment. I think they just get away with calling it a "bio" filter without getting into too much detail.
