The whole coral pricing has become a joke

rant alert

I get that people want to make money on corals but it's gotten to the point it's more about greed than making money. The zoa trend is probably the most comical of all. When I see 15-100 per polyp, I start wondering who in the hell is buying this? You can't even get a good colony of anything anymore because everyone wants to cut everything into small pieces and charge what they use to for large versions. I saw this "Nuke" green torch for 300 dollars. I paid 300 for our Huskie and she's a hell of a lot more entertaining than a torch coral. lol. Don't even get me into the renaming of corals. "Incredible Hulk Zoa" "Darth Maul zoa" "24k Torch" Give me a break. Last rant. The 40 dollar PURPLE HAZE mushrooms. These should have a street value less than a damsel. I had so many purple mushrooms in my tank I couldn't even see the other corals. They grow like weeds. I guess it all comes down what people are willing to pay for it. This hobby has a lot of people with more money than smarts, no offense, I'm one of them most of the time.

rant over

Keeping in mind the first post of this thread, the desire to turn reefing into a money making venture is turning a lot of display tanks into glorified frag tanks. Everything now is rare, seldom seen, hard to find, just release, LE, and by the polyp transactions. dkellar's post is spot on and I hope people heed his warning.

MUCHO
 
I'm a customs broker who cleared corals & fish at my last job. There is a great deal of $ & work to be a wholesaler. I've seen what the foreign suppliers charge, how much airfreight costs, & the clearance fees for Customs & Fish & Wildlife.

Some corals do command a higher price from the supplier but it is your LFS or online vendor marking up their cost 200 to 300%.

If there is something I want I just wait until the price drops or there is a sale. The price will drop eventually if nothing is selling.
 
Most of this has already been posted. But in order of importance:

1) A good LFS if you have one. Rarely have I paid anything that would be even close to what the fleabay photoshoppers ask, and all very, very nice (but unnamed) corals.

ebay is not what it use to be. This is how the game is played. The polyp pimps will post 1 to 10 polyps on there. The prettier the colors the least polyps they'll post. They will then take what the polyp sells for in an "auction", then use that "auction" price to justify selling it to everyone else. If you don't want to pay their price, they'll say "hey I'll just post it on the auction and somebody else will". Then you feel compelled now to buy it or lose out. This is part of the hype game most will never even see coming. Often they will have a friend bidding up the price or even buying it just to set the price high for everyone else to see.

2) Local reefer's club. This is easily the best option. Most of us have things that outgrow our tanks and give them away for free.

So true, I have given away as much if not more than I've sold. You just have to find the right group to hang with or get to know.

3) Direct import - I noted this a while back, but folks like Mitch at livestockusa.org will sell you a whole box of maricultured acroporas from Bali and other areas for about $45 a colony (and baseball sized colonies at that).

4) If you must order from websites, then Pacific East Aquaculture is one of the better sources, and has been in business for almost as long as the reefing hobby has been around. LiveAquaria and their sister site Diver's Den has gone downhill a bit since Petco bought them up (mainly in their ability to white-blanace a photo), but there are tons of whole rocks covered by nice zoas that sell for $50 - $100. A recent one that I've become aware of is Austin Aquafarms. Their stock has been diminished substantially after they got a good bit of publicity from BRS, but there are still multiple 1-2" frags of various acroporas that are $15 - $30 if that's your thing.

And this is just a cursory list. There are others out there. The specific actions that I'd suggest to prevent being taken is to:

1) Never buy corals off of fleabay. The transient nature of the listings seems to encourage over-hyping and photoshopping.

Agreed.

2) Avoid buying corals with cute names unless it's something that really appeals to you, and it's cheap.

I wouldn't buy anything named and never under 10 polyps per purchase as it relates to zoas and palys and never buy single mushrooms as they will have been hacked and glud as well. I can give you a dozen reasons why, but I will find a link to a thread I posted years ago. I'll try and find it tonight. But think about this.......ever wondered why your new mushroom detached, bleached or went downhill after a week or even died? What about your acro frag that turned white, brown, black or developed RTN? What about your zoa polyp you purchased with your entire check and it too perished or began to literally collapse or detach? There's a reason for all of this. Ask me why if you're curious.

Stay away from per polyp zoa or paly sales and anything on a fresh white plug.


Probably the most important:

3) Learn to recognize photoshopping. It's not too tough - anything that absolutely glows off of your computer monitor or phone is likely to be faked, and blue or purple eggcrate is also a dead giveaway.

If it glows.....say no. Also watch out for blue/purple substrate.....a dead giveaway for PSing and overly saturated with actinics is a no no.

Also, if the seller mentions rare, LE, LS, new to the market or someone's name attached to it.....just turn and run, you are about to be taken.

I'm going to post some shocking pics and info tomorrow.

Mooch
 
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You see the tanks sizes he is planning right now? What does this comment accomplish outside being unnecessarily hostile?

It's a carry-over from another thread because I defended the Tang Police against his tank-size rant. He's just trying to bust my chops.
 
I have yet to buy coral online. So I don't really want to give recommendations. I will be ordering some fish and coral from vivid soon. Their prices seem reasonable. I'm not too interested in colonies, I have all the rock I need, so buying new rocks covered in corals isn't for me.

Youreeef.com, their prices seem good as well. They have SPS frags for $16, it's a sale price, but they seem to always be on sale. They also have packs you can order for decent prices if you don't mind not picking what you get.

Extremecorals, if you can look past the absolutely absurd labels, honestly I can't even read them, I look at the pictures only. Again, never ordered, but they have big colonies for not crazy high prices.

I've only bought from my LFS and a local drag swap, they had better deals. But LA/DD, they seem good too.

I can vouch for yourreef they are my lfs and always have some decent frags, in store is a better deal though, of course.
 
I'm a customs broker who cleared corals & fish at my last job. There is a great deal of $ & work to be a wholesaler. I've seen what the foreign suppliers charge, how much airfreight costs, & the clearance fees for Customs & Fish & Wildlife.

Some corals do command a higher price from the supplier but it is your LFS or online vendor marking up their cost 200 to 300%.

A 200% to 300% mark up is very conservative from what we are seeing online and in LFS today.

If there is something I want I just wait until the price drops or there is a sale. The price will drop eventually if nothing is selling.

And there lays the problem. Before these names, lies and sky high prices, you could go online or walk into any LFS and buy a colony of any size color and shape of anything you wanted. No one waited on any prices to drop......you either bought it or you didn't. It would have been utterly hysterical and ridiculous for anyone to say or think 10 years ago that you would have to wait 1, 3, 5 or 10 years until the prices dropped on anything before you cold buy it. People we are talking about coral, they're not extent, they're not on any endangered species list, they are constantly reproducing as we speak !!!!!! There are polyps I have been watching that have been on the market for many years and people are still asking a fortune, FOR CORAL FRAGS ???????? Now, if you want something you have to spend a week to a year if ever to find it at an affordable price. I have never seen that in my 24 years of reefing.

I just viewed a site mentioned on this page and I laughed. The names, the prices and the labels for polyps I saw everywhere as huge colonies 15 years ago, but now they are photoshopped with a label and sold as a frag for an astrinomical price. Even the colonies were extremely old and common polyps that are now being sold for a ridiculous price lolol. If you are 1, 5 or 9 years in this hobby you wouldn't know these same common corals were sold for only $15 for 15 to 25 polyps of the EXACT SAME CORAL just a few years ago. !!!!!!! This practice has even migrated to the Swaps.

This upward trend will continue as long as reefers aren't educated on the history of what is happening. This pricing game is purely subjective and it's nothing more then a rush to see who can get the biggest payday from a frag and an unsuspecting sout who never knew what happened. Many are even bragging and celebrating those who have sold single polyps for hundreds and some for thousands of dollars. A hobby that use to be for everyone will soon become a hobby of the two percenters. Those who will spend hundreds for a polyp because they are going to sell the first born and thereafter for the same price.....over and over and over again. In the mean time, everyone else has to wait. It's up to you.

MUCHO
 
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Stopped by a LFS that I hadn't been too in 3-4 months but have bought livestock, corals, etc., there for years. Always liked them because they had good sized frags at great prices. What a difference those months made. Now they have jumped into the whole micro fragging crap. For what I paid for a nice frogspawn frag 3-4 months ago ($30 for 10+ heads), I can now get a frag with 2 heads for the same price, but it includes a fancy name.

The owner asked if I needed any help and I let him know I would no longer be shopping at his store and told him why. He told me he sells plenty of frags at that price. Didn't bother him in the least that he lost a long time customer.
 
I just viewed a site mentioned on this page and I laughed. The names, the prices and the labels for polyps I saw everywhere as huge colonies 15 years ago, but now they are photoshopped with a label and sold as a frag for an astrinomical price.

Which vendor are you saying photoshops on this page, yourreef? I just looked at the zoas on their website and the photos seem fine, I've actually owned quite a few of them myself and they have accurate depictions.

For instance, here's a photo of their candy apple reds,

YR%20Candy%20Apple%20Reds%202%20polyps%2050-30%2010-700x700.jpg


and here's a photo of my old frag that I gave to my older brother as a present,

23503958085_666ae1d39f_o.png


Granted mine look a tad bit different than theirs, but that's because I had them in higher lighting. They would get the darker skirt and lose the orange under lower lighting. You can see the orange on theirs starting to come in/leave on a few of the polyps to the right.

I apologize if this isn't the vendor you speak of, but you didn't name names so I'm just assuming who you meant as I don't see another vendor on this page.
 
I have been reefing for over 25 years and seen this kind of stuff go on for a while. I only had a FOLR for about 5 years after a bad crash and was out of the network and almost completely removed from the community and, only recently gotten back into serious Reefing lately.

So I just had a conversation on this subject with a old buddy of mine that has only been reefing for about 10 years, but He has seen this kind of price gouging first hand.

I told him that I found a new LFS and I had seen a couple of small rocks with some neon Green Clove polyps one was $150 and the other was $100 I was floored that rock in the 80s would only be about $6. The shop keeper quickly added that they were LE from some Brand Name Local Grower. I told him they looked just like they did 20 years ago. I didn't see anything that would suggest that they were limited edition quality. So my friend said he had seen them also and when he asked bout them knew exactly where they came from. He had ripped out a large mat from his tank to make room for a new addition and tried to sell frags to the local club members. He said he couldn't give those clove polyps away, then he got a call from the Local Brand Name Grower and gave away at least 400 polyps to him. Several months later he saw them for sale on the Facebook for $15 per polyp.

Like I said he is much younger than me and when I told him that was insane, he said that you gotta pay to play and was headed out to buy a few LE frags from the same guy.:uhoh3:
 
Have a friend who I offered to help move. He so happened to be one of the biggest zoa guys in out community and promised me blue rhino palys which are pricey. But he was sure to tell me "do not give them to anyone or sell them until I am able to sell them as well" to ensure the market stays inflated. Idk how I felt about that, Don't even want them anymore.
 
Have a friend who I offered to help move. He so happened to be one of the biggest zoa guys in out community and promised me blue rhino palys which are pricey. But he was sure to tell me "do not give them to anyone or sell them until I am able to sell them as well" to ensure the market stays inflated. Idk how I felt about that, Don't even want them anymore.

Honestly he doesn't sound like much of a friend. Guys like that are in it for themselves and generally are turds in my book
 
That pay to play BS is what drives up the cost and keeps newbs out of the hobby.

Agreed 100% There was a time when I'd be shocked to hear this but it's now commonplace to see and hear. Little do they realize how much they are hurting the hobby, hurting newbs and those whom would have potentially joined the hobby.

MUCHO REEF
 
Don't you guys have a local reef club or something similar?

A lot of the guys trade corals or sell corals for VERY reasonable prices.
 
Don't you guys have a local reef club or something similar?

A lot of the guys trade corals or sell corals for VERY reasonable prices.

From what I have seen is that a very well established local reef club has been over run with chop shop operations selling frags of the latest and greatest designer corals. Their frag setup is larger than their DT and are always the first to jump on a mature colony that comes up for sale. They sell fresh frags just glued to a plug and never encrusted most of which suffer RTN after arrival to their new home.

I never would sell a frag that wasn't encrusted and have never sold one for more than $20. I don't follow the designer names and don't care to. I cut my teeth on SPS while stationed in Germany and belonged to a local reef club there, Latin was my language of choice for coral ID! I learned from some of the pioneers of the Berlin method in a culture that promoted providing the best environment for a corals growth and natural structure development.

IMHO Most of the designer frags are what they are from new growth color variation from repeatedly propagating to the point that no one knows what a mature colony would look like! These designer are destroying the hobby, they do not care about proper identification or what structureal form a mature colony will take allowing a conscientious hobbiest to place it in the proper position for ideal flow, light and structure formation!! They only care about how much money they can get for the pretty colores that show up under some unnatural blue LED lighting with a little photoshop tweeking.


Rant over!
 
It's a free market economy. Let the buyers and sellers work it out. Reefing is generally a "smart" man hobby but nobody is ever forced to buy anything.

I still can't see how most LFS stay in business. Just imagine the overhead, time effort and money that goes into keeping that store open. Most in my area can't stay in business.
 
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