The whole coral pricing has become a joke

[Salty150]

I still can't see how most LFS stay in business. Just imagine the overhead, time effort and money that goes into keeping that store open. Most in my area can't stay in business.

That is a very interesting question...

And a whole other thread in itself.

There are a few that do it, would be nice to know how they do it.

 

[jrlmsla]

https://************.com/2015/10/13/bounce-mushroom-sells-record-6000-single-polyp/

What the what?

 

[alton]

The newest Coral Magazine page 51 has a good article on the latest craze Rhodactis Mushrooms and the amazing price some coral collectors will pay to have these. There are so many cheap great looking corals for newbies to purchase, the idea of a few expensive corals keeping newbies out is not true. Unless it is one that has to have the best of the best. And as far as comparing to cars, most antique cars can be cloned to look better than the original.

 

[SIR PATRICK]

It's a free market economy. Let the buyers and sellers work it out. Reefing is generally a "smart" man hobby but nobody is ever forced to buy anything.

You are correct, it is a free market, and this thread is sharing info to the buyers who dont know, and need this information so they can work it out with the sellers, and soon people may not be forced to pay highly inflated (and even dramatized) prices to buy the things they are not forced to buy.

Part of the "smart" man hobby is research.....and heres a good thread to start.

 

[JoeBatt]

I don't live in the US but in The UAE. I have the opposite problem, corals are reasonably cheap....far far cheaper than the US. I often travel to the US and always go to the local LFS for a look see, (usually Sea in the City in Orlando 'Plug Plug' )

Over here though in the UAE the price of equipment, salt and supplements are crazy. Some Red Sea Reef Energy was 6 times the price in the US for example..... I just order from Amazon and take it home with me on trips to the US and Europe now....

You win some you loose some

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Stopped by a LFS that I hadn't been too in 3-4 months but have bought livestock, corals, etc., there for years. Always liked them because they had good sized frags at great prices. What a difference those months made. Now they have jumped into the whole micro fragging crap. For what I paid for a nice frogspawn frag 3-4 months ago ($30 for 10+ heads), I can now get a frag with 2 heads for the same price, but it includes a fancy name.

The owner asked if I needed any help and I let him know I would no longer be shopping at his store and told him why. He told me he sells plenty of frags at that price. Didn't bother him in the least that he lost a long time customer.

Sad, but most all are doing it now. They too have jump on the proverbial bandwagon, I mean gravy train, of greed. I believe wholeheartedly in supporting our LFS as it is where I got my start, they need our support as they really helped me when I got started. The sky high coral prices were again created by reefers, LFS are simply jumping on board for their piece of the pie. The dedicated reefer who has supported them for many many years prior to the skyrocket prices/greed of 04/05, are now considered obsolete. How, why you ask? The new reefers aren't aware of the game that is being played that has been mentioned page after page of this thread. Now, the LFS will cater solely to that new reefer who doesn't know that $ 60 to $ 100 frag is only worth $ 10 or $ 15 max. Of course it didn't bother the LFS owner that you left never to return, because for every "long time customer" like yourself who walks away, there are 5 to 10 new reefers whom he'll cater to over you. What he doesn't realize is the longevity of the new reefer in contrast to the reefer who has supported his business 10, 15 and 20 years.

http://166.78.194.236/forums/showthread.php?t=1304962

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1920486

Just wait a few more years, you havent't seen nothing yet.

MUCHO

 

[MUCHO REEF]

I have been reefing for over 25 years and seen this kind of stuff go on for a while. I only had a FOLR for about 5 years after a bad crash and was out of the network and almost completely removed from the community and, only recently gotten back into serious Reefing lately.

So I just had a conversation on this subject with a old buddy of mine that has only been reefing for about 10 years, but He has seen this kind of price gouging first hand.

I told him that I found a new LFS and I had seen a couple of small rocks with some neon Green Clove polyps one was $150 and the other was $100 I was floored that rock in the 80s would only be about $6. The shop keeper quickly added that they were LE from some Brand Name Local Grower. I told him they looked just like they did 20 years ago. I didn't see anything that would suggest that they were limited edition quality. So my friend said he had seen them also and when he asked bout them knew exactly where they came from. He had ripped out a large mat from his tank to make room for a new addition and tried to sell frags to the local club members. He said he couldn't give those clove polyps away, then he got a call from the Local Brand Name Grower and gave away at least 400 polyps to him. Several months later he saw them for sale on the Facebook for $15 per polyp.

Like I said he is much younger than me and when I told him that was insane, he said that you gotta pay to play and was headed out to buy a few LE frags from the same guy.:uhoh3:

LOL, whenever someone says LE, Ultra, grade A, just released etc, you should run. Because you are about to be taken, so don't pay just to be played.

How hilarious, clove polyps are even LE now. I can't wait for the LE salt water :hammer:

Mooch

 

[HammerLover]

How has the greed and skyrocketing prices affected the hobby there? Have reefers left the hobby due to these prices? How do they feel about the naming in Manila?

Majority of our corals are from our native shores, and we import them as well like indonesia.

The local reefers like me have gone to the exporters that sells quality stocks at reasonable prices. Although we still buy stocks in LFS. They sell fishes, inverts and liverock at cheap prices.

We also had a facebook group were all Filipinos can exchange experiences and exchange answers. There are also corals/fishes for adoption, trade or for sale S well.

And you know what? The LFS is selling aiptasia and majano anemones. They sell aiptasia at 10 php a piece and 50 php for larger ones. I even saw before a 200
php liverock covered in majano :uhoh2:

Whats weird is LOTS of people buy them :facepalm:

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Have a friend who I offered to help move. He so happened to be one of the biggest zoa guys in out community and promised me blue rhino palys which are pricey. But he was sure to tell me "do not give them to anyone or sell them until I am able to sell them as well" to ensure the market stays inflated. Idk how I felt about that, Don't even want them anymore.

You'd be shocked if you knew the number of people whom literally communicate and conspire with each other to keep the prices of corals extremely high. cjdevito said it best when he said " fragging use to be about sharing the wealth. Now, it's all about creating wealth" . I say, reefing has been replaced with retailing. The guy above is solely in it for the benjamins.

MUCHO

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Majority of our corals are from our native shores, and we import them as well like indonesia.

The local reefers like me have gone to the exporters that sells quality stocks at reasonable prices. Although we still buy stocks in LFS. They sell fishes, inverts and liverock at cheap prices.

We also had a facebook group were all Filipinos can exchange experiences and exchange answers. There are also corals/fishes for adoption, trade or for sale S well.

And you know what? The LFS is selling aiptasia and majano anemones. They sell aiptasia at 10 php a piece and 50 php for larger ones. I even saw before a 200
php liverock covered in majano :uhoh2:

Whats weird is LOTS of people buy them :facepalm:

Good to hear back from you my friend.

Come on Hammer, I know Friday is April 1st, a day here in the United States known as April Fools. It's a day recognized as a day of playing pranks and telling jokes. So when you tell me that aptasia and majano covered rocks, which are basically unwanted weeds, are being marketed and sold like coral at coral prices, this has to be a joke, right?

MUCHO

 

[PIPSTER]

For those who think blue light is unnatural, go scuba diving down to 60 ft or your max and tell me what color everything is down there. :frog:

Supply and demand works both ways, as does competition.
Right now there's a lot more demand than supply of corals, and so buyers are competing, which NATURALLY drives the price up. Auction is the most free market scenario there is.

How come rastas aren't as common as radioactive dragons?

 

[Dugless]

If you have been in the hobby for some time and shop around, you will realize there are some corals in recent years (and in years past) that are new/unique enough to warrant higher pricing. I can think of some chalices/montis/acros that are rare and slow growing enough to justify a higher price point.

I have personally purchased some more expensive frags and have waited multiple years to see inches of growth, whilst more common coral are getting fragged many times over. To me, this justifies a higher price. If I were to sell frags of an extremely unique piece that took 3-4 years to grow out, I would regret selling it in a similar fashion as I do with the common corals I own. Time is money. Do I try and resell these for the price I paid? Most certainly not.

I wouldn't, however, suggest buying expensive 'name brand' corals hoping to grow and re-frag for profit. I also would caution anyone buying faster growing corals (zoas and the like) hoping to start a small business out of their basement. The prices of these coral plummet dramatically as the local/national market gets saturated. Pretty soon everyone has the same corals and no one will be willing to pay what you're asking. Think of the designer clownfish as an example. The pricing of those has already dropped from what they were just a few years ago.

In the end, buy what you like and build a tank you love. If that happens to include expensive coral, only you can justify the pricing.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Honestly he doesn't sound like much of a friend. Guys like that are in it for themselves and generally are turds in my book

The greed we speak of !!!!!!

 

[Big E]

I can't wait for the LE salt water

Wait? It's been around for years, as well as other "high end" chemicals,equipment, ect.

The whole hobby has people trying to doop reefers for probably the last 10 years..........it's escalated in the last 5 or so as hype has increased as best way to sell something.

Corals are only a small portion of the problem.

 

[HammerLover]

Good to hear back from you my friend.

Come on Hammer, I know Friday is April 1st, a day here in the United States known as April Fools. It's a day recognized as a day of playing pranks and telling jokes. So when you tell me that aptasia and majano covered rocks, which are basically unwanted weeds, are being marketed and sold like coral at coral prices, this has to be a joke, right?

MUCHO

Its not joke I swear!

Yes they sell aiptasia in the name of "glass anemones". Newbies of course will buy them as well as cheap gonios that dont last long term. Since its kinda cheap as well its very appealing to some :0. I even saw someone bought them :eek1:

And peeps here were very stubborn at times. I had a friend who has a 5 gal with a purple tang, damsel and a skunk clown. Another someone who has a 10 gal with 3 puffers!!! Some wont just listen and would always say "thats what the LfS told me" or "I can always buy a new fish". And they are older than me as well most of the time. They find some reefers like me who only had 2 fishes in my 10 gal reef as weird or odd.

 

[SIR PATRICK]

For those who think blue light is unnatural, go scuba diving down to 60 ft or your max and tell me what color everything is down there. :frog:

As a past diver-

There is a huge difference between natural blue and the "blue glow" of tank lights.

 

[SIR PATRICK]

Supply and demand works both ways, as does competition.
Right now there's a lot more demand than supply of corals, and so buyers are competing, which NATURALLY drives the price up. Auction is the most free market scenario there is.

And the best scenario to get ripped off.....but yes, best scenario of free market. Buyer beware, as already warned in this post many times.

 

[SIR PATRICK]

How come rastas aren't as common as radioactive dragons?

Watch some indo pacific videos of zoas in natural habitat, and you will learn quick.


radioactive dragons are give away polyp and fish store fodder for beginers for obvious reasons.....they grow in mats by the 10xthousands and are common as they come-

But dont get it twisted....just because rastas arent as readily available as some of the vast varieties of Veit. polyps doesnt make them rare, comparitively.

Last i checked online it was just as easy to get rastas as it was RGE's....and for around the same price, once the RDE's price was inflated because of a good pic taken of them.

 

[SIR PATRICK]

Dont be fooled.....

Alls i gotta say.....

Re-read this thread if you are still not sure...

 

[SIR PATRICK]

Wait? It's been around for years, as well as other "high end" chemicals,equipment, ect.

The whole hobby has people trying to doop reefers for probably the last 10 years..........it's escalated in the last 5 or so as hype has increased as best way to sell something.

Corals are only a small portion of the problem.

Truth....

Only difference between coral and equipment it the R&D involved.....