The whole coral pricing has become a joke

[sde1500]

But is it really a branded product? Or a particular breed? /QUOTE]


Actually, this is a perfect example. Because you could purchase nike's and pay a premium or get a similar product from china town.
I'm sure you're aware of what branded means. You're literally paying for ORA not ORA that Joe tank raised.

This entire argument has had a strong hold of "protect the newbie". If the newbie is paying $1,500 for a polyp then what?

Why isn't there a thread like this over real estate, milk, or gas?

Costs are based on supply and demand. Period. What would then happen if a $1,500 polyp was $5... Is that the $5 polyp would be $.01. And we would be having the same conversation that we are now about how ridiculous it is that there is a $5 polyp.

Someone just needs to close this thread. It is just going to go on forever or perhaps move it to the lounge. Because this isn't helping anyone. It's just rambling and arguing.


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Too late haha. There are already complaints in this thread about polyps being $5.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

But is it really a branded product? Or a particular breed? /QUOTE]


Actually, this is a perfect example. Because you could purchase nike's and pay a premium or get a similar product from china town.
I'm sure you're aware of what branded means. You're literally paying for ORA not ORA that Joe tank raised.

This entire argument has had a strong hold of "protect the newbie". If the newbie is paying $1,500 for a polyp then what?

Why isn't there a thread like this over real estate, milk, or gas?

Costs are based on supply and demand. Period. What would then happen if a $1,500 polyp was $5... Is that the $5 polyp would be $.01. And we would be having the same conversation that we are now about how ridiculous it is that there is a $5 polyp.

Someone just needs to close this thread. It is just going to go on forever or perhaps move it to the lounge. Because this isn't helping anyone. It's just rambling and arguing.


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This thread is for everyone and not just new reefers. If you've followed the thread you will see that numerous reefers have been enlightened of this mess and will no longer pay these silly prices. If you or others choose to pay these prices, go ahead.

The reason there's no thread here regarding real estate, milk or gas is because this is not a real estate, milk or gas forum.

If you are not a fan of this thread or disagree with it's direction or content, then please refrain from clicking on this thread instead of trying to censor the opinions of others simply because you don't like or agree with their opinions. Problem solved. What are you afraid of everyone seeing?

Mooch

 

[SeattleReefer]

But is it really a branded product? Or a particular breed? Like in dogs. They all had founders for the breed but people have gone one (sometimes thousands of years later) to continue that particular breed. Newer breeds, such as labs, goldens, some spaniels and setters, once purchased are bred or not bred depending on the owner and the agreement between buyer and breeder. But as for a brand name? They have kennel names and the kennels the dogs come from can have certain looks (enough so they can be recognize) but again, with the fish, are you saying no one else is allowed to breed those colors? Who's going to stop them? Especially when it's a natural mutation that has simply been proliferated.

of course it's a branded product, that's what the circled R symbol means:
(ORA®)



and your example is yet another illustration of the market in action. Labrador retrievers used to be expensive and rare and now they are common and less expensive. The 'greedy' breeders sold the initial breed examples for a high price and eventually the profit motive brought more suppliers into the marketplace and prices came down.

It's a shame that so many are ignorant of basic economic principles that used to be taught in high school- don't they teach the kids this anymore? Or perhaps the complainers do know basic economics and don't care- they just want to complain and whine because someone out there is making a profit by selling a product that other people are willing to buy. The mantra of free stuff is a powerful lure.


.

 

[itz frank]

This thread is for everyone and not just new reefers. If you've followed the thread you will see that numerous reefers have been enlightened of this mess and will no longer pay these silly prices. If you or others choose to pay these prices, go ahead.

The reason there's no thread here regarding real estate, milk or gas is because this is not a real estate, milk or gas forum.

If you are not a fan of this thread or disagree with it's direction or content, then please refrain from clicking on this thread instead of trying to censor the opinions of others simply because you don't like or agree with their opinions. Problem solved. What are you afraid of everyone seeing?

Mooch

It's funny that you bring it up but I wouldn't pay $1,500/polyp. And not because I can't afford it but because it isn't worth it to me.

I'm not afraid of anyone seeing anything. I also don't sell any corals.

So perhaps I'm not sensoring but I am getting annoyed that it's been the same convo for 20 pages.

You're right though. Your pixels are going to change the way economics works. Keep crying.




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[xgjgyj]

Agreed, I walked into the LFS the other week and thought to myself I guess I will keep some shrimp and live rock, I'm not paying that much for sick corals.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

It's funny that you bring it up but I wouldn't pay $1,500/polyp. And not because I can't afford it but because it isn't worth it to me.

I and no one else that I know or reef with buys any of these silly named corals by the polyp not even for $5.00 a polyp. We stopped buying years ago. The reefers who have come into reefing post 04/05 have been deceived into believing these per polyp prices are the norm. Well, they have become the norm because of the polyp pimps who have convinced them as much. Those who have read this thread, as you have seen if you've followed the thread from its inception, are no longer paying these sky high silly rip off prices. Many who wish to close this thread are afraid of this very fact which prevents them from pimpin any more of these per polyp sky high sales.

2004
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/s...id=913053&highlight=disturbing+zoanthid+trend

http://test.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1920486

I'm not afraid of anyone seeing anything. I also don't sell any corals.

Then stop trying to get this thread closed, geez.

So perhaps I'm not sensoring but I am getting annoyed that it's been the same convo for 20 pages.

So what if it's the same convo, who cares? Someone said that 10 pages ago, and the thread is still here. AGAIN, who's forcing you to read this thread?

You're right though. Your pixels are going to change the way economics works. Keep crying.

Ok, thank you.




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[ksc]

Sounds like someones little black market business got stuck holding unwanted corals to me. It's been shown multiple times here that less than 1% of reefers spend $1000/polyp, less than 1% spend $100 poly, 5% spend up to $10/polyp, and only one guy spends $1 a polyp....

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Do you see the correlation to saltwater tanks? Lets say a newb is looking to start a new tank. It's already crazy expensive because they'll probably buy new equipment because they don't know any better. Now they look at the cost of corals because really most people don't want a FOWLR tank, and the sticker shock hits again. That person may decide it's just too darn expensive a hobby to get into. The higher the cost to play, the smaller the market is who can afford to play.

Your point is very well taken. This is how I came upon the 10 new reefers I have mentored for over a year now. All of them were either leaving, had left, about to leave or hesitent due to the sky high cost of these micro frags and no colonies available. There are those who could care less if others leave this hobby, cause there's a new crop of unsuspecting new reefers to get over on signing on everyday.

I'll put it another way. I head over to the LFS and I see some really nice coral frags. Now I know they're under LED lights, lights I don't have (I have T5's), and I look at the prices which to me are way too high for how small the frag is so I pass. I pass because I know the prices are too high and the LFS has lost a sale. I also frequent the message boards for several local clubs and they're not too far off when is comes to pricing for frags. Everything is 'rare' with the price that goes with it. Again, I chose not to purchase because I know the price is too high. The end result is that I have very few corals in my tank. Am I happy with it, nope, but I chose not to pay to play.

Collectively choosing not to pay to play is the only variable, aka boycotting anyone involved in this practice, that will bring these prices back to where they were, reasonable.


I started tanks back when you pretty much gave away frags to friends or if you sold them is was for $5 / $10 a frag, beer money as we called it. To this day I would happily give away a frag of anything I had in my tank to a friend or still charge $5 / $10 max. I see it as growing the hobby rather than a way to make money. Maybe it's an age thing as I'm 56 but it's how I choose to live my life and hopefully grow the hobby.

They're fragging and selling aptasia and GSP now.:hammer:

http://s.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2556733&page=24

.:deadhorse1:



This is what the whole fragging, crazy name, thing has done to coral prices. Basic corals such as Frogspawn, Leather corals, Hammer corals, all of them have seen significant price increases because the LFS, and online retailers, have seen how much people are willing to pay for so little.

Great point and very true. These sky high prices are killing the hobby and there's no end in sight.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2316723

These types of threads are the only channels of information which provides direct entree to any reefers who isn't aware of the game being played on them. This thread is loaded with reefers who have chosen never to pay these silly prices again.The polyp pimps, their front men and the carnival barkers want you to remain blind to the truth while you're convinced that your 3 pencil size polyps you paid for are rare and worth the $75 you just gave them for those 3 polyps that are only worth 5 bucks.

It has been stated already earlier in this thread that they will defend these prices till the very end. Who defends or justifies these rip off sky high prices for a pencil size polyp which grows literally overnight and can die the day after you receive your polyps from improper, premature, repetitive fragging and horrible shipping? Ask yourself, who would defend these prices and practices and why?
RC is a great resource. Align yourselves with local clubs and honest and ethical reefers whom have been in the hobby more than 15 minutes.

Mooch

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Agreed, I walked into the LFS the other week and thought to myself I guess I will keep some shrimp and live rock, I'm not paying that much for sick corals.

So the prices are even sky high for sick coral now?

If everyone kept shrimp and live rock for 6 months to a year, these prices would fall like Humpty Dumpty.

Another customer lost due to greed. Sorry you had to experience that my friend.

MUCHO

 

[heathlindner25]

You make me sick mucho, do you honestly think we can keep raping the oceans with more and more hobbist entering? Give it away for free? Coral should be expensive, typical human response.... destroy everything. If we keep taking and taking and taking , and you want it all dirt cheap. Don't pay the little man, the middleman, all you want is your $5 colonies
This Thread disgusts me

 

[bwhit1406]

Do I think high price corals with fancy names are a ripoff ...yes

Am I mad at people for selling corals at these prices...no

You can only sell something for what someone is willing to pay, there are cheaper corals out there to buy

 

[heathlindner25]

Do I think high price corals with fancy names are a ripoff ...yes

Am I mad at people for selling corals at these prices...no

You can only sell something for what someone is willing to pay, there are cheaper corals out there to buy

Excellent point.... quit beating this :deadhorse1:

 

[MUCHO REEF]

rant alert

I get that people want to make money on corals but it's gotten to the point it's more about greed than making money. The zoa trend is probably the most comical of all. When I see 15-100 per polyp, I start wondering who in the hell is buying this? You can't even get a good colony of anything anymore because everyone wants to cut everything into small pieces and charge what they use to for large versions. I saw this "Nuke" green torch for 300 dollars. I paid 300 for our Huskie and she's a hell of a lot more entertaining than a torch coral. lol. Don't even get me into the renaming of corals. "Incredible Hulk Zoa" "Darth Maul zoa" "24k Torch" Give me a break. Last rant. The 40 dollar PURPLE HAZE mushrooms. These should have a street value less than a damsel. I had so many purple mushrooms in my tank I couldn't even see the other corals. They grow like weeds. I guess it all comes down what people are willing to pay for it. This hobby has a lot of people with more money than smarts, no offense, I'm one of them most of the time.

rant over

Again, if you do not agree with the opinions of the OP and those who agree, please post a reply for or against. If the topic offends you, or you are tired of reading the thread and the replies, then please look away and refrain from clicking on this topic. Please do not attempt to censor the opinions of others simply because you don't agree with there's. Problem solved.

Hey bwhit, I'm not mad either, I simply disagree with the practice and we both have the right to post our opinions respectfully.

Mooch

 

[SeattleReefer]

Again, if you do not agree with the opinions of the OP and those who agree, please post a reply for or against. If the topic offends you, or you are so tired of reading the thread and the replies, then please look away and refrain from clicking on this topic. Please do not attempt to censor the opinions of others simply because you don't agree with there's. Problem solved.

How is it that you don't take your own advise when you see a price you don't like? Look away! Problem solved!

we both have the right to post our opinions respectfully.

Mooch

Yeah, well, speaking of respect, this does not seem very respectful...

...The polyp pimps, their front men and the carnival barkers ...

 

[MUCHO REEF]

I find this thread enlightening and I am glad to see this topic drawing so much attention. I hope that more people in this hobby will take a stand and refuse to pay these absurd prices. It isn't supply and demand but purely greed. It almost seems like people buy these simply so they can say "look at me! look at me! or they buy them so that they too can "get rich quick". People that stand to gain from the price gouging will defend this topic to the death.

Excellent point and profoundly stated, but I'd like to hear from those who agree on what you feel might remedy this issue. Talking about it and educating others is a start. I've received a ton of feedback privately from reefers who are fed up as well. Hey, maybe threads like this will be the catalyst of change.

Mooch

 

[jiminy_crime]

There will always supply and demand...this won't be remedied any other way.

Either people refuse to buy them until prices lower or people continue to buy them and prices rise. The government isn't going to step in here and regulate coral pricing.

Unfortunately we are in a hobby that favors the wealthy and many if not most fish stores must cater to them to run their businesses as profitable as they possibly can. There are a select few who just do it because they love and don't care if it is super profitable as long as it pays the bills...most want to make as much as they can...who wouldn't want to.


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[MUCHO REEF]

Reefers should continue to vote with their wallets. I haven't purchased in years and according to the many links I've read and posted as far back as 12 years ago, thousands are doing the same.

 

[SeattleReefer]

Reefers should continue to vote with their wallets.

problem solved!

:beer:

 

[bwhit1406]

Hey bwhit, I'm not mad either, I simply disagree with the practice and we both have the right to post our opinions respectfully.

Mooch

Maybe you took it wrong but my comment was not directed at you, just saying how i feel.

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[MUCHO REEF]

Maybe you took it wrong but my comment was not directed at you, just saying how i feel.

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Hey thanks my friend, we're good, no problem. Thanks for the reply.