The whole coral pricing has become a joke

[ksc]

I've posted this several times already, but check it out anyway.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2316723

43,000 views on this topic, wow, it has made an impact for sure.

Nice thread and at least the OP admits his motives. Drive all the legitimate business's out and make room for the illegal home business's. Disgusting...



Quote:
I doubt there are many brick and mortar stores that only sell marine, there are but 2 (two) that I know of in my area that btw has a population of 7 million people or so. One of the two is a chop shop that sells overpriced frags, the other is just a hole in the wall bargain place. If the market did implode and these two shops went out of business it would mean increased business for the local hobbyist frag community. Is this a bad thing? Not in my book. Inconvenient perhaps, tragic hardly.
That's the silver lining, when this thing crashes we're going to be back to selling our home-priced frags again You made some great points, thanks again for your insight.

Quote:
Just do your part to grow and sell frags locally, it's all you really can do. Undercutting the high priced websites in your local community will have more impact on pricing than any internet rant.
That's what I try to do

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Agreed, I walked into the LFS the other week and thought to myself I guess I will keep some shrimp and live rock, I'm not paying that much for sick corals.

Just curious, what state are you in? If you prefer not to disclose, I understand, just curious, thanks mate.

 

[Reef Frog]

Capitalism itself is lies, greed and deception bud.

Otherwise the phrase "buyer beware" would never have been invented.

Capitalism isn't anything of the sort. Humans are responsible for greed, lies & deceptions. Lots of that going around in nations with socialist, communistic, despotic, religious, monarchic and tribal forms of government. Or even worse, no government at all. It's just a part of the human condition.

 

[Bent]

Capitalism isn't anything of the sort. Humans are responsible for greed, lies & deceptions. Lots of that going around in nations with socialist, communistic, despotic, religious, monarchic and tribal forms of government. Or even worse, no government at all. It's just a part of the human condition.

Hopefully this doesn't come off as a rude response:

Dude, but that's a tad rhetorical. Without humans, these forms of government and economical models wouldn't even exist, and we wouldn't be having this conversation. You can't seperate the two.

That would be like saying "oranges are only sweet and tangy if you eat one".

 

[reefwars]

Here's the second vendor on the RC sponsor page. Big rocks that average $50. As you can see, " The whole coral pricing has become a joke" is actually a myth.
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/aquarium-fish-supplies.cfm?c=597+599

You'll find countless examples just like this everywhere you go , the fact this guy doesn't discuss with anyone other than those who agree with him simply shows he does not care about debate it's a propaganda mission lol he bumps up the threads quoting only what he wants others to see and ignores any direct debate about these "facts" but a read through this whole thread shows its quite a divided topic (money right if course it's a touchy subject lol) and still lots of examples and topics just pushed to the side cause it doesn't fit the mission he's set lol

I know personally I'll continue to shop the way I shop if I like it and want it and the price is acceptable I'll buy it it's that simple , if joe down the street is selling for 10 times less for the same item I'll buy from him then , my purchasing shows no loyalty I give my money to who ever has what I'm looking for and at a price I found to be acceptable , this doesn't just stop at corals it goes for just about anything I would buy in life

I've been into Zoas for as long as I can remember and I laugh when I see someone say every Zoa available now was always available because it simply wasn't , for years I drooled over what you guys got into the states and always said **** I wish I could get that or wow I've never seen that but it just wasn't available or certainly not on the level it was today and I don't really care that it cost money to get these hell I live pay check to pay check and I still buy what I buy I've been the type to just buy it if I want it and deal with the consequences later

 

[Reef Frog]

Not rude at all. This is a pure opinion thread after all.

Rhetorical? It's a simple self evident truth to me. Humans manifested some pretty awful behaviors (and some good) in the past & right now. A certain large percentage are prone to be entirely self absorbed & selfish, and will therefore do bad things and take advantage of others.

It's been that way since the first hominids descended from the trees in the Rift Valley a million plus years ago. And they will continue to be in the future and in all societies and under all forms of government.

IMO capitalism with a stong rule of law is the only option that can create the material wealth humans need & desire. Name a superior form of human organization that actually works in the modern world. Sure it has its warts & ugly parts from polyp pimps to religious fanatics willing to kill scores in the name of an invisible creator. That's the negative part of the human component.

Read Adam Smith's "The Wealth of Nations". It's as true now as it was 240 years ago. It gets human nature right. By comparison Marx & Engles "Communist Manifesto" is pure fantasy that disregards common sense regarding human behavior. That's why one system thrives and drives the works foreword, and the other is a complete disaster. I toured Eastern Germany not too long after the wall fell. I saw the results of a command & control society and it's not a world in which I could live.

JMO of course.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

You make me sick mucho, do you honestly think we can keep raping the oceans with more and more hobbist entering? Give it away for free? Coral should be expensive, typical human response.... destroy everything. If we keep taking and taking and taking , and you want it all dirt cheap. Don't pay the little man, the middleman, all you want is your $5 colonies
This Thread disgusts me

Everyone is entitled to their opinion my friend, right or wrong.

 

[heathlindner25]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion my friend, right or wrong.

That's cute that you finally respond, but only after someone calls you out for not responding to people with opposite opinion

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Again, you're entitled to your opinion, right or wrong. This thread is helping an awful lot of reefers and I think it should continue doing as such.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

rant alert

I get that people want to make money on corals but it's gotten to the point it's more about greed than making money. The zoa trend is probably the most comical of all. When I see 15-100 per polyp, I start wondering who in the hell is buying this? You can't even get a good colony of anything anymore because everyone wants to cut everything into small pieces and charge what they use to for large versions. I saw this "Nuke" green torch for 300 dollars. I paid 300 for our Huskie and she's a hell of a lot more entertaining than a torch coral. lol. Don't even get me into the renaming of corals. "Incredible Hulk Zoa" "Darth Maul zoa" "24k Torch" Give me a break. Last rant. The 40 dollar PURPLE HAZE mushrooms. These should have a street value less than a damsel. I had so many purple mushrooms in my tank I couldn't even see the other corals. They grow like weeds. I guess it all comes down what people are willing to pay for it. This hobby has a lot of people with more money than smarts, no offense, I'm one of them most of the time.

rant over

What this thread and others have done is to pull back the curtain and show new reefers that these prices for these micro frags have been grossly inflated and supported by lies , hype and deception, all in the name of greed. The way to combat this problem is to simply refuse to pay these sky high rip off prices. I encourage you to start from page 1 and read the entire thead for yourself. Numerous request and demands have been made to close this thread, ask yourselves why? Read pages 14 and 18, read the testimonials of those who were in the dark. See how many could care less about what newb reefers are aware of. After viewing this entire thread and you choose to pay these sky high rip off prices for these silly named micro frags, then at least you'll have complete knowledge to make an educated decision.

Mooch

PS. Read post #331 top to bottom. Numerous reefers throughout this thread have posted their discuss at what is transpiring with these greed driven prices.

 

[heathlindner25]

The reason people want this thread closed is because of YOU. Everybody loves a discussion, except YOU.
And just for the record you will never see any for sale thread written by me.... I don't sell croral,l give them away.
Most people are just tired of YOU saying the same thing over and over and over again..HTH

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Here's a depiction of what transpired in 2008 shortly after these price hikes began back in 2005. By 2008, it had gone totally mainstream and reefers were furious. Many have chosen to leave the hobby rather then succumbing to the tsunami like wave of greed which has consumed this hobby.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/s...id=913053&highlight=disturbing+zoanthid+trend

There are those who cherish and welcome paying $100 for a $15 frag. I say, that's great for you, but the rest of us DO NOT. Vote wirh your wallet and educate yourselves before opening it.

 

[mikeatjac]

Not sure who this thread is helping. I think most of us are smarter than we are being betrayed.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

I can agree with that, but there are many reefers who once bought into these lies and lost a lot of money and have now made a change to stay clear of such nefarious sellers. Again, I hope you are right my friend. But I can share dozens of stories regarding people who have been ripped off royally. I will try and find the link of the kid I mentored at USC who was fleeced for $500 for frags in total worth $60 max. The kid cried when I showed him how common those frags were and that I normally give those frags away for nothing. Again, I certainly hope you're right. Maybe you could share your experiences?

 

[mikeatjac]

I can agree with that, but there are many reefers who once bought into these lies and have now made a change. Again, I hope you are right my friend. But I can share dozens of stories regarding people who have been ripped off royally. I will try and find the link of the kid I mentored at USC who was fleeced for $500 for frags in total worth $60 max. The kid cried when I showed him how common those frags were and that I normally give those frags away for nothing. Again, I certainly hope you're right. Maybe you could share your experiences?

If I like a coral, color or shape I will buy it. I don't sell frags anymore. Usually give them back to my favorite LFS. Used to give them away to, reefers but they would show up late, wanted to stay too long or wanted more than I wanted to part with.

Reefers that have grow out systems do have an investment in time and money. If they can support their tanks with proceeds from their frags more power to they.

This not about capitalism, socialism or anything but human nature. Not any different then any other hobby.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

If I like a coral, color or shape I will buy it. I don't sell frags anymore. Usually give them back to my favorite LFS. Used to give them away to, reefers but they would show up late, wanted to stay too long or wanted more than I wanted to part with.

I have derived the greatest pleasure by giving corals away to young reefers who were expecting me to charge them.

Reefers that have grow out systems do have an investment in time and money. If they can support their tanks with proceeds from their frags more power to they.

I can agree with that, but this thread is about those who are charging exhorbinent prices for common corals and even new corals and misleading those who buy. There is rampant lying and deception that is fueled by greed. People have and are leaving this hobby in droves due to these prices. Reefing was once for everyone with corals readily available and affordable by all. Now reefers are being told to wait or buy the dull colored corals that are much cheaper, REALLY !!!! This thread isn't about supporting one's tank, it's about deception, lies, hype and greed.

This not about capitalism, socialism or anything but human nature. Not any different then any other hobby.

NAIL ON THE HEAD.......just never thought I'd see it creap into our hobby.

Mooch

 

[sde1500]

The reason people want this thread closed is because of YOU. Everybody loves a discussion, except YOU.
And just for the record you will never see any for sale thread written by me.... I don't sell croral,l give them away.
Most people are just tired of YOU saying the same thing over and over and over again..HTH

He used to post interesting topics in the Zoanthids section. Really seemed interested in keeping that section busy. Now only posts in this thread. Almost his only posts this year are here complaining of prices. Too bad really. He seems to like ignore those of a dissenting opinion if he can't change your mind after a few responses. Hell he's ignored my questions for a while now lol. Community of thousands here, plenty of newbies he claims to like helping, but doesn't. Only likes sharing stories of his 10 mentes and the newbies he's "helped" by telling them they spent too much on corals. Really if I was struggling with my tank and an experienced reefer came to help, and only ranted on me spending too much, I'd ask him to leave. What help is that?

If so many people are out there spending $1k+ on polyps why can't he find more stories instead of that one guy that bought two for over $2k that he gloats about dying?

I can absolutely see, hype and marketing can drive up prices. That's obvious. But as many have said, hype builds, people start buying, growing, fragging, and selling and that drives prices down. Who cares if new morphs come out at crazy prices. Not sure how a new Krakatoa morph affects the prices of morphs like Rastas or Sunny D's you can find anywhere.

 

[heathlindner25]

Here's a depiction of what transpired in 2008 shortly after these price hikes began back in 2005. By 2008, it had gone totally mainstream and reefers were furious. Many have chosen to leave the hobby rather then succumbing to the tsunami like wave of greed which has consumed this hobby.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/s...id=913053&highlight=disturbing+zoanthid+trend

There are those who cherish and welcome paying $100 for a $15 frag. I say, that's great for you, but the rest of us DO NOT. Vote wirh your wallet and educate yourselves before opening it.

I refuse to open any thread you post, if it where anyone else , yes.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Not sure who this thread is helping. I think most of us are smarter than we are being betrayed.

I see that you've been here since 04. When did you first notice the sudden increase in prices for these tiny frags which have gotten even smaller?

 

[heathlindner25]

I see that you've been here since 04. When did you first notice the sudden increase in prices for these tiny frags which have gotten even smaller?

I see you have been here since 03. When did you notice your zoas selling business decline and get bitter?