There is no such thing as a Picasso Clown Fish

[raythepilot]

I find this whole clownfish thing really laughable. Maybe I'm wrong; so, explain it to me why I'm not.

I posit that there is no such thing as a Picasso Clown fish.

For there to be such a thing, it would have to have a well-defined set of characteristics that are agreed to by a recognized organization. In addition the animal would have to have a pedigree that demonstrates that it is a reproducible example of the type. For example, an AKC registered Rottweiler is a valid breed type.

No Picasso I've seen meets this criteria. So what you get is ??? Marketing mumbo jumbo.

 

[davocean]

Well, it is a thing,and they are different from regular percs, and they are recognized by big breeders like ORA, Sustainable aquatics, others, and yes people do verify lineage.

 

[CoralsAddiction]

I find this whole clownfish thing really laughable. Maybe I’m wrong; so, explain it to me why I’m not.

I posit that there is no such thing as a Picasso Clown fish.

For there to be such a thing, it would have to have a well-defined set of characteristics that are agreed to by a recognized organization. In addition the animal would have to have a pedigree that demonstrates that it is a reproducible example of the type. For example, an AKC registered Rottweiler is a valid breed type.

No Picasso I’ve seen meets this criteria. So what you get is ??? Marketing mumbo jumbo.

what are we supposed to call them? True Percs with extended white bands? Extra white true percs? Why not shorten it to a single word like Picasso? Rottweiler is a breed of its own. Picasso is a variation of a breed. It's like saying that Blue French Bulldogs are not French Bulldogs. Blue French Bulldogs aren't recognized by AKC as a separate breed. However, there are many Blue French Bulldogs that are eligible to register with AKC under generic French Bulldog category. Your argument just went poof poof.

 

[CoralsAddiction]

:twitch::twitch:

 

[oahureefer]

Yes it marketing, 25 years ago we called all these "designer" clownfish misbars and they were cheaper because they were not desirable. Well fast forward and now they are more desirable and come with a higher price tag.

They got their lessons from DeBeers

 

[Breadman03]

You should try to find a properly developed percula. Every one I see looks more like a bulldog than a fish.

 

[davocean]

There are perfect specimens out there, it's just a matter of finding a responsible breeder, and that goes for your standard occs or percs as well, just something we have to deal w/ since clowns are relatively easy to breed and many do so w/out knowing what they are really doing.

But to say there is no such thing to me is like saying I won't call your dog a labrador, I'm just going to call it a dog, because labels make them pedigree and more expensive, marketing hype!lol

No bulldog face here.

 

[WatDatThing]

I like black and white clown, so I bought the cheapest one I can find. My son likes Nemo, so I bought the cheapest Nemo I can find. Nevermind the marketing names.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

[Breadman03]

There are perfect specimens out there, it's just a matter of finding a responsible breeder, and that goes for your standard occs or percs as well, just something we have to deal w/ since clowns are relatively easy to breed and many do so w/out knowing what they are really doing.

But to say there is no such thing to me is like saying I won't call your dog a labrador, I'm just going to call it a dog, because labels make them pedigree and more expensive, marketing hype!lol

No bulldog face here.

I just can't seem to find that locally, not that I'm actively searching. I'm just looking when I'm in the LFS.

Those are some beautiful fish!

 

[ThRoewer]

what are we supposed to call them? ...

Feeder or bait fish.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[CoralsAddiction]

Feeder or bait fish.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

You're talking about individual traits of fishes, their defects in particular. This discussion is about their name in general. You would call a wild caught Picasso feeder fish as well?

 

[raythepilot]

what are we supposed to call them? True Percs with extended white bands? Extra white true percs? Why not shorten it to a single word like Picasso? Rottweiler is a breed of its own. Picasso is a variation of a breed. It's like saying that Blue French Bulldogs are not French Bulldogs. Blue French Bulldogs aren't recognized by AKC as a separate breed. However, there are many Blue French Bulldogs that are eligible to register with AKC under generic French Bulldog category. Your argument just went poof poof.

Exactly what do you call them? In order for there to be a Picasso breed there has to be agreed upon standards for the breed and an organizing body to develop the standards. Without that I can call anything a Picasso and it's not even a registered trade mark. It's just someones opinion.
There is no such thing as a Picasso. Calling them Percs with extended white bands is the way you need to go to define a Picasso but it is not unambiguous.
Please show me the definition of a Picasso that unambiguously describes this thing.

 

[raythepilot]

But to say there is no such thing to me is like saying I won't call your dog a labrador, I'm just going to call it a dog, because labels make them pedigree and more expensive, marketing hype!lol

A Labrador is a dog with well defined and agreed to characteristics. A Picasso is what? Show me the agreed to characteristics that make it a Picasso!

 

[CoralsAddiction]

Without that I can call anything a Picasso and it's not even a registered trade mark.

I am pretty sure there is a reason for it. Do you research on genericization (spelled that way exactly) and trademark erosion. Perhaps then, if you're capable of processing the information the right way, you can see why it's not a registered trademark when it comes to Picasso clowns.

 

[Mirror Pond]

What was the purpose of this thread?

 

[raythepilot]

Perhaps then, if you're capable of processing the information the right way, you can see why it's not a registered trademark when it comes to Picasso clowns.

Seriously! an Ad hominem argument!

 

[raythepilot]

What was the purpose of this thread?

My purpose was to point out the total chaos associated with the mutation breeding of Clown fish. It is clear that there needs to be an organizing body to define the breeds of clown fish. In addition there needs to be pedigree for fish similar to dog, cats and horses that will guarantee to a purchaser that the "œPicasso" that they buy is indeed a "Picasso" and will produce "œPicasso" offspring when mated with another "œPicasso"
Probably even more important would be a list of genes provided by the breeders that represent the DNA mutations associated with the fish breeds.

I realize that this is beyond the scope of a self-help forum but here is what you need to get with the real world of fish mutation breeding.

http://theangelfishsociety.org/phenotypes/volume1.htm

 

[Irishdolphin]

.... guarantee to a purchaser that the "œPicasso" that they buy is indeed a "Picasso" and will produce "œPicasso" offspring when mated with another "œPicasso"

Does mating of 2 Picasso guarantee a Picasso offspring?

 

[raythepilot]

Does mating of 2 Picasso guarantee a Picasso offspring?

Since there no such thing as a Picasso, I guess the answer is maybe.

 

[D-Nak]

My purpose was to point out the total chaos associated with the mutation breeding of Clown fish. It is clear that there needs to be an organizing body to define the breeds of clown fish. In addition there needs to be pedigree for fish similar to dog, cats and horses that will guarantee to a purchaser that the "œPicasso" that they buy is indeed a "Picasso" and will produce "œPicasso" offspring when mated with another "œPicasso"
Probably even more important would be a list of genes provided by the breeders that represent the DNA mutations associated with the fish breeds.

I realize that this is beyond the scope of a self-help forum but here is what you need to get with the real world of fish mutation breeding.

http://theangelfishsociety.org/phenotypes/volume1.htm

I think you have a valid point, but the way by which you address the issue -- saying that there is no such thing as a Picasso when there clearly is -- will unfortunately lead to ad hominem arguments.

To review, we commonly refer to a wild Percula having aberrant markings consisting of additional white barring as having the Picasso gene. To what extent it is expressed typically determines the value of each fish. Where we run into issues is when we start taking this wild stock and begin creating hybrids and other morphs, and this is where a governing/organizing body would be beneficial.

My question is, how does one create an organizing body? These "designer" clownfish have been available for many years now, and I don't see any effort made to create anything "official" aside from lists of morphs/strains. The bigger question to how and why might be the who -- who would we trust to develop this type of registry?