Third Time's A Charm!
- Thread starter dascharisma
- Start date
Nice job Brad! It's exciting to see a big tank build come together. Tinytool says your tank is supposed to be done soon? I can't wait to see it in place. I really like the depth of your tank. Now you'll need to get a Mesoscope just so you can see the corals in the back! 
dascharisma
New member
I forgot to mention the tank's status. It is currently being built and is scheduled for pick up on Sunday the 9th. It was supposed to be done already, but the builder ran into some delays. Hopefully it will be worth the wait.
My plan is to put the display in the back of a pickup and then trailer a u-haul big enough to fit the sump. Once I get it back to Ankeny (from Kansas City KS), I need to bring the 300 gallon conical bottom tank, the sump, the RODI storage tank, and the display through the basement window. The only tricky move will be the display. It should weigh around 550lbs and there will only be a couple inches on each side to squeeze it through the window opening.
I think 4 guys should be able to manage the move, but I may need a few volunteers depending on how reliable my "crew" is.
Brad
My plan is to put the display in the back of a pickup and then trailer a u-haul big enough to fit the sump. Once I get it back to Ankeny (from Kansas City KS), I need to bring the 300 gallon conical bottom tank, the sump, the RODI storage tank, and the display through the basement window. The only tricky move will be the display. It should weigh around 550lbs and there will only be a couple inches on each side to squeeze it through the window opening.
I think 4 guys should be able to manage the move, but I may need a few volunteers depending on how reliable my "crew" is.
Brad
dascharisma
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10652579#post10652579 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by slovan
Nice job Brad! It's exciting to see a big tank build come together. Tinytool says your tank is supposed to be done soon? I can't wait to see it in place. I really like the depth of your tank. Now you'll need to get a Mesoscope just so you can see the corals in the back!
No need to buy one, I'll just swipe JJ's when he isn't looking. A guy with that many toys won't miss one will he?
Brad
dascharisma
New member
6 days till I pick up the tank and I CANT WAIT!.
Anyways...
I am currently trying to decide on what I should do about skimming the new system. I originally intended to purchase a second 3 pump Octopus skimmer. I was going to run each skimmer off its own overflow. That would assure that 100% of the display tank water would be skimmed. I have now decided not to purchase another Octopus skimmer.
My main problem with the skimmer is the pumps. I feel that the pumps do not pull enough air for the body size of the skimmer. This forces me to run the water level higher in the skimmer than what is optimal. The higher water level causes another problem. When a pump stops working, the water rises higher in the airline tubing from the pump than the top of the tubing, which causes a flood. If the pumps were ultra reliable, it wouldn't be a big issue. Unfortunately, at least one of the pumps fails each month. Normally the pumps can be restarted (although you have to blow in the pumps to get them to restart). My guess is that people with the in sump models have these problems, and simply ignore them. With an out of sump skimmer, you are just waiting for disaster. The only way to avoid all this, is to run the skimmer a bit lower than you would expect, and just live with reduced performance. Don't get me wrong, the skimmer still skims, but it just isn't all it could be for the body size. On a 180 or a 210, this skimmer would be great, but I am looking at 900 gallons of water. I need something that packs more of a punch.
I know that a lot of people have been moding their pumps to improve the performance of these skimmers. However, I have also read a bunch of reports that the modded pumps stop working after six months. That might not be a huge deal for people with 1 or 2 pumps, but I don't want to end up with 6 of these things, and have to replace them twice a year. I have already had one pump completely fail, and I replaced that pump and purchased a backup. Obviously, I am already on the road to continuous pump replacement. No need to make things worse by chopping up the pumps.
Which brings us to this:
What skimmer(s) should I buy?
My plan is to run as much as 1500 gph through the display(which will feed the skimmer or skimmers). This amount can be reduced to fit whatever works best for the skimmer, but 1500gph is a practical maximum. The area I have to work with is 48" left to right and around 30" front to back. This space will fit one monster skimmer or a pair of medium size skimmers comfortably. I need a solution that will legitimately skim 900 gallons. I want to stock the 420 gallons of the display very heavily. Since I was not planning on spending a bunch of money on a skimmer, price is an important concern. On the other hand, I don't want to buy something that won't work for the job.
I intend to use the skimmer I have (and stock lightly) until I come up with a better solution. If I ended up deciding to get 2 skimmers, I may purchase one while using my current skimmer and saving for the second skimmer.
The 2 skimmers I am currently looking at seriously:
2 of these --- ReefFlo skimmer --- 12" body 32" tall. Run with a dart.
1 of these --- Volcano skimmer --- 18"body 48" - 72" tall. Run with a dart and air pump.
Anyways...
I am currently trying to decide on what I should do about skimming the new system. I originally intended to purchase a second 3 pump Octopus skimmer. I was going to run each skimmer off its own overflow. That would assure that 100% of the display tank water would be skimmed. I have now decided not to purchase another Octopus skimmer.
My main problem with the skimmer is the pumps. I feel that the pumps do not pull enough air for the body size of the skimmer. This forces me to run the water level higher in the skimmer than what is optimal. The higher water level causes another problem. When a pump stops working, the water rises higher in the airline tubing from the pump than the top of the tubing, which causes a flood. If the pumps were ultra reliable, it wouldn't be a big issue. Unfortunately, at least one of the pumps fails each month. Normally the pumps can be restarted (although you have to blow in the pumps to get them to restart). My guess is that people with the in sump models have these problems, and simply ignore them. With an out of sump skimmer, you are just waiting for disaster. The only way to avoid all this, is to run the skimmer a bit lower than you would expect, and just live with reduced performance. Don't get me wrong, the skimmer still skims, but it just isn't all it could be for the body size. On a 180 or a 210, this skimmer would be great, but I am looking at 900 gallons of water. I need something that packs more of a punch.
I know that a lot of people have been moding their pumps to improve the performance of these skimmers. However, I have also read a bunch of reports that the modded pumps stop working after six months. That might not be a huge deal for people with 1 or 2 pumps, but I don't want to end up with 6 of these things, and have to replace them twice a year. I have already had one pump completely fail, and I replaced that pump and purchased a backup. Obviously, I am already on the road to continuous pump replacement. No need to make things worse by chopping up the pumps.
Which brings us to this:
What skimmer(s) should I buy?
My plan is to run as much as 1500 gph through the display(which will feed the skimmer or skimmers). This amount can be reduced to fit whatever works best for the skimmer, but 1500gph is a practical maximum. The area I have to work with is 48" left to right and around 30" front to back. This space will fit one monster skimmer or a pair of medium size skimmers comfortably. I need a solution that will legitimately skim 900 gallons. I want to stock the 420 gallons of the display very heavily. Since I was not planning on spending a bunch of money on a skimmer, price is an important concern. On the other hand, I don't want to buy something that won't work for the job.
I intend to use the skimmer I have (and stock lightly) until I come up with a better solution. If I ended up deciding to get 2 skimmers, I may purchase one while using my current skimmer and saving for the second skimmer.
The 2 skimmers I am currently looking at seriously:
2 of these --- ReefFlo skimmer --- 12" body 32" tall. Run with a dart.
1 of these --- Volcano skimmer --- 18"body 48" - 72" tall. Run with a dart and air pump.
Double-J
Premium Member
Having owned an MRC-6 and Deltec 902 both very nice the volcano is in another class of it's own.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF2nfyInf4Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF2nfyInf4Y
Coralfreak
Premium Member
If it were me and I had those two options, Id go with the 2 Reeflos, gives you a backup if something should go wrong with the other, JMO.
Of course for a few more $$ you could go with a Deltec AP1004 or a Bubble King 400 external
Of course for a few more $$ you could go with a Deltec AP1004 or a Bubble King 400 external
dascharisma
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10691724#post10691724 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Coralfreak
If it were me and I had those two options, Id go with the 2 Reeflos, gives you a backup if something should go wrong with the other, JMO.
Of course for a few more $$ you could go with a Deltec AP1004 or a Bubble King 400 external
I hear you on the redundancy of 2 ReefFlos. On the other hand, it would be a higher electrical draw to run two Darts as opposed to a dart and an air pump. The difference isn't huge, but it adds up 24/7. The other downfall is double the cleaning and maintenance. On the plus side, I could afford to purchase a ReefFlo right away, and run it along side my current skimmer, and then upgrade to a second ReefFlo when the need/money is there. The ability to "buy now" is really pushing me toward the ReefFlo.
My problem with the BK skimmers is that their Red Dragon pumps are an oddity in the states. I want a pump that I can afford to have a backup of, or that I can have sent overnight from a number of online vendors. I also wonder about high priced skimmers that are meant to fit under a stand. I am afraid that a shorter skimmer may be a compromise that I have no need to accept, since I have essentially unlimited space.
My issue with the Deltecs is that I know they are overpriced. When I looked into them a year ago, you could buy a 1003 for $1800 in Germany and $3200 here in the states. I simply won't pay that markup. Deltec Doug can get rich off somebody else. I lived in Germany and I know what it costs to ship to the states. The middle man is getting fat.
That said, I haven't ruled any skimmer out.
Brad
Coralfreak
Premium Member
I hear ya on the double duty, reality is no matter which route you take, it will have pros and cons, there is no perfect situation. Just go with what works for you.
Keep in mind that BK and the Red Dragon pumps are now being carried and backed by Premium Aquatics, which is huge IMO.
As to Deltec, I know they are jacked up on price, but man, they do work. Its a tough call.
Keep in mind that BK and the Red Dragon pumps are now being carried and backed by Premium Aquatics, which is huge IMO.
As to Deltec, I know they are jacked up on price, but man, they do work. Its a tough call.
einsteins
Premium Member
Brad
Well said about Deltec!!
I have said this about them for a long time....I believe they could make money at half of what they sell their stuff for in the states.
Look at the new Tunze skimmers....they are basically a simple beckett that uses the mod idea from a post on RC and they want well over a $1000.00 for the small one and like 1700.00 for the larger, and I cant remember if that even includes a pump.
It is a free market and as along as people buy them at those prices you cant blame them for charging it. Its just not going to be me.
Great thread by the way...your project has been great to follow along with!
ein
Well said about Deltec!!
I have said this about them for a long time....I believe they could make money at half of what they sell their stuff for in the states.
Look at the new Tunze skimmers....they are basically a simple beckett that uses the mod idea from a post on RC and they want well over a $1000.00 for the small one and like 1700.00 for the larger, and I cant remember if that even includes a pump.
It is a free market and as along as people buy them at those prices you cant blame them for charging it. Its just not going to be me.
Great thread by the way...your project has been great to follow along with!
ein
Coralfreak
Premium Member
Oh, they make them that big, but they are pricey as well. You would need at least the KZ Rev L which comes in at $2750 and I am not completely sure that would be enough, I dont know enough about them, the KZ XL is $5300!!!
I agree with you all on the pricing of Deltecs, but they are one of the best skimmers you could ever own. I am hoping now that they have some serious competition from Royal Exclusiv, the pricing will become a bit more reasonable, but who knows.
The BK is more effecient than any other skimmer mentioned as far as electrical cost, but the replacement pumps are pricey if you should ever need one.
Good luck Brad, I'll keep my eye on this to see what you end up with
Double-J
Premium Member
In any case you need one big skimmer or two smaller ones to push 12-1500gph thru. Even with 2 reeflow 12" body skimmers it's probably only half the water volume in my 18" diameter skimmer meaning I'm able to push a crap load of water thru the skimmer without it moving the waterlevel at all and more importantly it gives the water a much greater dwell time, does this matter... Not sure, In my mind it makes sense the longer the water stays in contact with the bubbles the more it's able to pull from.
Before buying my skimmer I would have thought it was way overated for my tank but with the stuff it pulls out and how the tank looks I don't think there is such a thing as "overskimming" a tank. I'm able to feed my fish tons of food, have a huge bioload and have nitrates around .25-.5 (lamotte) In a normal tank with a normal feeding, normal bioload and 12.5hrs a day 2500watt lighting my corals would probably be bleached out, but because of the huge amount of fish and the huge feedings my corals are dark and colorful. I don't think I could accomplish this with a skimmer that is "rated" for my tank.
You've seen a deltec 1003 and 1004 in action... I watch brad collins tanks when he is gone and he has both plus two of the big H&S skimmers, no doubt the skimmers are nice but the skimmate they pull is not near what the volcano pulls.
Of course I might be a little biased because it's my skimmer but having seen your big octopus, brads big Deltec and H&S's I have yet to see a skimmer in person that can come close. I would like to see a BK 400-650 in person. I think a lot of people hype up skimmers well... because If you were to spend 3-6grand on a skimmer would you say any different?
Before buying my skimmer I would have thought it was way overated for my tank but with the stuff it pulls out and how the tank looks I don't think there is such a thing as "overskimming" a tank. I'm able to feed my fish tons of food, have a huge bioload and have nitrates around .25-.5 (lamotte) In a normal tank with a normal feeding, normal bioload and 12.5hrs a day 2500watt lighting my corals would probably be bleached out, but because of the huge amount of fish and the huge feedings my corals are dark and colorful. I don't think I could accomplish this with a skimmer that is "rated" for my tank.
You've seen a deltec 1003 and 1004 in action... I watch brad collins tanks when he is gone and he has both plus two of the big H&S skimmers, no doubt the skimmers are nice but the skimmate they pull is not near what the volcano pulls.
Of course I might be a little biased because it's my skimmer but having seen your big octopus, brads big Deltec and H&S's I have yet to see a skimmer in person that can come close. I would like to see a BK 400-650 in person. I think a lot of people hype up skimmers well... because If you were to spend 3-6grand on a skimmer would you say any different?
Hi Brad,
Are you set on getting external skimmers? What about in-sump skimmers? It seems like ATI has the kinks worked out of the Bubble Master skimmers and two of the BM250's would be another option. It would be more cost effective than 2 Reeflo's or a Volcano. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a Volcano but it would nearly double my water volume and wouldn't do me any good.
Are you set on getting external skimmers? What about in-sump skimmers? It seems like ATI has the kinks worked out of the Bubble Master skimmers and two of the BM250's would be another option. It would be more cost effective than 2 Reeflo's or a Volcano. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a Volcano but it would nearly double my water volume and wouldn't do me any good.
dascharisma
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10693140#post10693140 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by slovan
Hi Brad,
Are you set on getting external skimmers? What about in-sump skimmers? It seems like ATI has the kinks worked out of the Bubble Master skimmers and two of the BM250's would be another option. It would be more cost effective than 2 Reeflo's or a Volcano. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a Volcano but it would nearly double my water volume and wouldn't do me any good.
I am dead set on an external skimmer or skimmers. I have had both external and internal skimmers, and I will never use an internal skimmer again. I simply hate trying to take care of a skimmer that is in a foot of water. The tank I maintain has an internal skimmer, and I am constantly having to fiddle with it. I end up with salt all over me every time. The other reason I want an external skimmer is that I want 100% of my display water to go through the skimmer.
Additionally, I don't have any room in my sump for a skimmer. It seems funny that with an 8' X 2' sump I would have problems with space, but each section of the sump is already taken. The first compartment will house live rock and a filter sock. The middle section is the frag tank, and all the probes. The right section is for more rock. Since I don't think I will even use 200lbs of rock in the display, I want to have plenty of rock in the sump for filtration.
On another note, since there is no real time constraint on getting a new skimmer, I might wait to see what happens in the next 6 months. I have read that ReefFlo is going to come out with an 18" diameter 48" tall skimmer in the future. It may be priced cheaper than 2 of the current ReefFlo models, and it would be a good solution.
As for the Volcano, my fear is that the price is going to prohibit me from getting one. JJ is going to talk to Spazz and find out what kind of skimmer he could make that would be in the same price range as 2 ReefFos. That might be a good solution too.
Brad
