Third Time's A Charm!
- Thread starter dascharisma
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dascharisma
New member
Ok, here is the sump.
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And a shot from the other direction.
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Here are the other tanks. The one on the left is the 300 gallon conical bottom tank that will be plumbed into the system. The one on the right is a 200 gallon tank for rodi storage. The smaller one next to it is a 105 gallon tank for saltmixing and water changes.
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Here is the tank from behind.
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Here is the money shot for ya.
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Brad
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And a shot from the other direction.
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Here are the other tanks. The one on the left is the 300 gallon conical bottom tank that will be plumbed into the system. The one on the right is a 200 gallon tank for rodi storage. The smaller one next to it is a 105 gallon tank for saltmixing and water changes.
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c87/dascharisma/IMG_8928Large.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>
Here is the tank from behind.
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Here is the money shot for ya.
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Brad
Your entire setup is nuts Brad! Reading your thread and looking at the pictures only did so much. Now I can tell that you have really thought things through and it shows after seeing it. The fish room is so much bigger than I thought it would be and so is your sump! :eek1: I still can't believe that's an 8 ft. sump!
Congrats on the tank. Now the real fun begins!
Congrats on the tank. Now the real fun begins!
leeweber85
New member
Man that's a huge tank! Glad all went well with the move.
First his great deal he posts up on the skimmer/waste collector that makes me poop and now his tank.
Impressive rig man. And it was nice meeting some of the other local guys. If I hadn't been on the bike, I would have helped with more of that beer. I had drinkers remorse on the way home thinking of those lonely 30 some odd beers sitting in your fridge...
The pics don't do this beast justice. To actually have been there and helped carry it in(not nearly as heavy as I was anticipating...) gave me a new appreciation for the ammount of thought that goes into a large scale system.
BTW, Brad says party at his place when it is up and running!!! (Not really but a closet alcoholic can hope can't he?)
Impressive rig man. And it was nice meeting some of the other local guys. If I hadn't been on the bike, I would have helped with more of that beer. I had drinkers remorse on the way home thinking of those lonely 30 some odd beers sitting in your fridge...
The pics don't do this beast justice. To actually have been there and helped carry it in(not nearly as heavy as I was anticipating...) gave me a new appreciation for the ammount of thought that goes into a large scale system.
BTW, Brad says party at his place when it is up and running!!! (Not really but a closet alcoholic can hope can't he?)
It was great meeting you guys on Sunday.
This is going to be a great system, and gave me quite a few new ideas on my 300+ gallon build in the near future.
I am planning to meet with JJ soon to see his set up since he lives very close to me and his set up is pretty close to what I am going to build, but I was told/warned he would be a bad influence...
Brad, thanks for all the information, it was great seeing a big system come together.
Cagri
if anyone wants to see my puny system, here are some old pics.... It is 2.5 years old, very low tech, easy to maintain system everything is grown from frags.... unfotunately, it is so overgrown that I cannot even stick my hand in there to clean it anymore.
http://picasaweb.google.com/ccakinberk/Aquarium
This is going to be a great system, and gave me quite a few new ideas on my 300+ gallon build in the near future.
I am planning to meet with JJ soon to see his set up since he lives very close to me and his set up is pretty close to what I am going to build, but I was told/warned he would be a bad influence...
Brad, thanks for all the information, it was great seeing a big system come together.
Cagri
if anyone wants to see my puny system, here are some old pics.... It is 2.5 years old, very low tech, easy to maintain system everything is grown from frags.... unfotunately, it is so overgrown that I cannot even stick my hand in there to clean it anymore.
http://picasaweb.google.com/ccakinberk/Aquarium
Last edited:
dascharisma
New member
Cagri your tank is awesome. The sps coloration is really impressive in a tank with all those big softies. I can't wait to see what you do with your new system. Feel free to give me a call or pm me if you want to chat.
Brad
dascharisma
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10731035#post10731035 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by slovan
Your entire setup is nuts Brad! Reading your thread and looking at the pictures only did so much. Now I can tell that you have really thought things through and it shows after seeing it. The fish room is so much bigger than I thought it would be and so is your sump! :eek1: I still can't believe that's an 8 ft. sump!
Congrats on the tank. Now the real fun begins!
Thanks Sone. This is a big compliment coming from a guy with the slickest set up in the club. As for thinking things through, you are definitely right. I have spent a ton of time thinking about this system (just ask my wife!).
Brad
dascharisma
New member
Let me start off by saying thank you for posing this question. I have been looking for an excuse to opine about plumbing, so here goes.
The tank has the following elements when it comes to moving water: The display, the skimmers, the sump, the chiller, and the 300 gallon tank. Here are each element's flow requirements.
Display - 1000-1500 gph + internal pumps - I don't think it is a good idea to use a return pump to get flow (the kind that keeps the detritus in suspension and the corals happy). The reason being, a return pump (or a closed loop) is terribly ineffecient compared to power heads. A Tunze puts out for 55watts what it takes a hammerhead 350 watts to do. With a tank this big it would take an insane number of external pumps to run a bare bottomed system. The only reason to use external pumps is because internal pumps clutter the display and look like crap. This is why I built the tank into the wall and am building a back rockwall 6 inches off the back wall. This will let me hide the internal pumps. This way I save on electricity and maintain the clean look.
Skimmer - 1000-1500 gph - I plan on a pair of skimmers that will need 500gph+each or a single large skimmer that will need 1000-1500gph. To me it doesn't make sense to feed skimmers with their own pump in the sump. It makes more sense to feed the skimmers off the overflows. That way you skim 100% of the tank water (and all extra food goes straight to the skimmer). The other bonus is you are using the return pump in the sump to feed the tank, and then the tank feeds the skimmer, and then the water goes back to the sump. You add one link to your "circuit" and you eliminate one pump.
Sump - 5000+gph - My sump is also my prop tank, so I have 2 things to think about when it comes to the flow. On the one hand I need flow for the corals, and on the other I must keep the bottom completely clean. I hate siphoning crap out of a sump, and the only way around it is to push a ton of water. I plan to put a couple of Tunze 6080s in the sump to keep the bottom clean the the corals happy. I will also benefit from the flow of the return pump. The return pump will drain water on the far right end of the sump, and the water will return on the far left end.
Chiller - 1500-3000gph - The chiller I am getting is a TradWind 1HP chiller. When I first saw the flow requirement, I was worried. The bare minimum flow requirement was the maximum I could put through the skimmer. I didn't want to plumb the chiller in the same loop as the tank and skimmer, because I didn't want to force myself to max out the skimmer. I thought about running two pumps (one for each loop) but I decided that a single pump was a cleaner solution. My plan is to run a large return pump (either a barracuda or a hammerhead) and to split the output of the pump. One line will go directly to the display tank, and the other line will go to the chiller. I will use valves on the display tank line so that I can fine tune the skimmers input. The rest will go to the chiller.
300 Gallon Tank - ???? - I honestly have no idea what the optimum flow rate is through a tank like this. The conical bottom should reduce any settling, so I probably don't need a lot of movement in this tank. On the other hand, I can't see why lots of flow would be a bad thing. The 300 gallon tank has a 2" drain on the bottom and could certainly handle a lot of throughput. This tank will be fed from the top. The water will exit out the bottom. Its drain fitting is at a 90 degree angle near the floor. From there, it will 90 and go vertically. It will then 90 (now parallel to the floor) at the desired height of the water in the 300 gallon tank. From there it will run horizontally toward the sump. Then it will 90 down and enter the sump. My plan is to feed this tank from the chiller. The water will return to the sump next to where the skimmer will drain into the sump. The chiller water and all my kalk water will go into this tank. That altered water will get a chance to mix in the 300 gallon tank and then mix with the skimmers output water in the sump. Only then will it find its way to the display.
I also intend to plumb the system so that all elements can be bypassed.
Skimmer Bypass I will put an exta line in each overflow that will go directly to the sump and bypass the skimmer. That way I can turn off the valves on the skimmer's line from the overflow and open up the back-up lines' valves and still get water to the sump from the display. This will come in handy when I need to clean the skimmer and its pumps.
Chiller Bypass I will probably put a bypass between the return pump and the chiller. The bypass will go from the return pump straight to the 300 gallon tank. That way, if the chiller needs to be repaired or replaced, I can still get the temperature stability provided by the 300 gallon tank's water.
300 Gallon Tank Bypass I will put a bypass between the chiller and the 300 gallon tank. It will take water from the chiller and go straight to the sump. I plan to use this when I am doing water changes. I will bypass the 300 gallon tank, and then drain 100 gallons from it (this will require a separate drain line to my floor drain). After draining the water I will pump water from the 100 gallon saltwater mixing container into the 300 gallon tank. Once it is full I can turn off the bypass and the water change will be complete.
There won't be a true display tank bypass or a true sump bypass. I figure if the display needs to be bypassed, I can just turn off the valve feeding the tank. That will stop water from going to the display. It will continue to put water through the chiller and 300 gallon tank, but the skimmer will not be fed. I don't think I will ever have a reason to do this, so the fact that the skimmers would go off line does not concern me. As for the sump bypass; if the sump goes out, the system is without filtration. It is as simple as that.
To answer your question about tripping over plumbing:
The tank is going to drain to the skimmer which will sit on the opposite side of the room. I plan to plumb from the overflows into the furnace room to the bottom left of the sub panel. The pipes will run behind the wall I built separating the fishroom from the furnace room. They will then re-enter the fishroom on the right side of the furnace room door. They will run along that wall and then turn along the sump wall. They will feed the skimmers from there. Here is a pic of the area I am talking about.
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The return pump will sit to the right of the sump. It will split into 2 lines. One will go to the right to feed the chiller (the chiller will sit on the wall opposite of the wall the electrical panel is on.) The other line will go straight up the wall the sump is on. It will then follow the ceiling from the sump side of the room to the tank side. Once on the wall the display is on, the pipe will angle down and feed the display. Here is a picture of that area.
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Once the plumbing is in, I will be sure to take a ton of pics. I plan to label every pipe, so it should be easy to follow. Maybe then all of my ramblings will make sense:lol:
Brad
dascharisma
New member
That is the plan. I am going to run flex pvc from the display to the skimmer/sump, so that I minimize the restrictions. I might even end up getting black flex pvc for everything. It wouldn't be cheap but it would look SICK!
Brad
waverz
Slave to the reef!
Aren't you going to have to go around some 90 degree corners anyway? And who is gonna see the plumbing in the furnace room besides you and the furnace guy anyway? I like the spa hose stuff but it don't like corners much, and it sounds like you are going to be going around a few of them. I wouldn't think regular PVC would be that restrictive would it?
dascharisma
New member
Where do you think I got the idea from Sone? I stole it from YOU!:rollface:
Brad
dascharisma
New member
I ran the headloss calculator on RC. Using a Sequence 4600 and using 5 feet of head I got the following: With no 90 degree bends the flow would be 3748 gph. With 30 90 degree bends (which is my estimate for how many it would take) the flow would be 2881 gph. That is a difference of almost 900 gph. I do not know the percent of the 900 gph that the flex PVC would allow to be pushed. My guess is half at best. So 450 gph. To me that is significant enough to warrant the flex pvc. 90 degree bends really do make a difference when there are lots of them. Because flex has such a large bend radius, it lessens the restriction.
As for who would see the plumbing; I think there will be well more than 50 feet of pipe that will be on the walls. The sections behind the furnace room wall and on the ceiling will just prevent having to walk over the plumbing. There will still be plenty of exposed pipe work in the room.
Brad
Cool, It'll look really nice once you get it all plumbed in with black spa flex PVC.
Are you going to be using schedule 80 fittings? That may cut down on your flow even further. I'm assuming that the headloss calculator on the front page of RC is using sched. 40 PVC.
Are you going to be using schedule 80 fittings? That may cut down on your flow even further. I'm assuming that the headloss calculator on the front page of RC is using sched. 40 PVC.
This is very much a scary wierd "It puts the lotion on it's skin..." kind of moment here... But still hilarious!
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10730699#post10730699 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dascharisma
I just came across this one. I had to post it for comic relief. Don't ask what Phil and I were doing.
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Brad
