This is probably how the zeolite system works

Acrotrdco

New member
I've posted this on another forum and I'd like to share / discuss this idea with you guys here.

I've got a link to this PhD thesis paper from the National Central University of Taiwan, it's written in Traditional Chinese, but the abstract is in English.

http://thesis.lib.ncu.edu.tw/ETD-db/ETD-search-c/view_etd?URN=86346005

I've tried to locate similar papers in English but so far I couldn't find any of them that points out this idea in such clarity as this one, this paper is almost like the "manual" of how zeolite system works.

Basically in the paper it documents how Sequential Batch Biofilm Reactor system (SBBR) is utilizing PAO (Polyphosphate Accumulating Organisms), through alternating between the aerobic/anaerobic phases, to accmulate/consume PHA (Polyhydroxyalkanoates) to remove phosphorus from the water column.

If you've noticed, zeolite systems (such as KZ ZEOvit) also requires a 3 hours on/off flow to alternate between the aerobic/anaerobic phases, probably to achieve similar results from a SBBR system.

Images from the paper:
post-2746-1280479870.jpg


And part of the abstract:
...Sequential Batch Biofilm Reactor system (SBBR) is effective in removing phosphorus. The storage and release of intracellular inclusions, especially PHAs and poly-P, would be an important factor for phosphorus removal. Under different operating conditions, total phosphorus removal was always determined by accumulation of PHAs and phosphorus release under the anaerobic phase. The PHAs accumulation under the anaerobic phase was always in proportion to the biofilm phosphorus content under the aerobic condition. The result shows PAOs activity was closely related to PHAs accumulation. However, the PHAs accumulation under the anaerobic phase would be dependent on the hydrolysis of the complex carbon source into short chain fatty acids. The effect of the An/Ox time ratio on TP removal was significant. Shorter anaerobic time would result in insufficient phosphorus release and greater time would result in inactive PAOs. The appropriate An/Ox time ratio was suggested as 1/2 and appropriate duration time was suggested as 6-8 hours.

In the anaerobic phase, the main activity of COD uptake occurs in initial 30 minutes. However, activity of phosphorus release occurs in 30-60 minutes and this phenomenon is more significant for initial substrate with higher concentrations due to the delay effect of mass transfer of adsorbed COD. The PHAs accumulation and phosphorus release share a similar trend. Since PHAs' demand per released phosphorus is independent of the initial COD, the enhancement of PHAs' accumulation would benefit phosphorus release. In the biofilm's system, the only requirement is to have sufficient and simple initial substrate and it would result in sufficient PHAs' accumulation for phosphorus release. In the aerobic phase, because poly-P storage's capability is always not saturated, PAOs could uptake excess PO43-. In other words, the limitation of TP removal is always caused by anaerobic phase, not the aerobic phase.

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In other words, the zeolites used in these zeolite systems, are nothing more than "bacteria housing", since Randy already pointed out that the NH4 binding capabilities of zeolites are rapidly depleted after a few hours and there's no proofs that zeolites will continue to exchange ions in a marine environment.

Which means, I'd assume one could even use GAC or even bioballs instead of zeolites, and would still achieve similar results.

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On a side note, since biopellets are mainly PHA (speculated to be the main ingredient of NP Biopellets), I'd assume there's no need for PAO's to accumlate anymore PHA therefore the anaerobic phase (required to build up PHA) is not needed, all the PAO need to do is to consume the PHA from the pellets and uptake PO4, this's probably how the NP biopellets works on controlling N and P.

Reference:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17432897
 
Which means, I'd assume one could even use GAC or even bioballs instead of zeolites, and would still achieve similar results
I thought that the bacteria is also attracted to the iron in the zeolite?
 
ok ,

fact is you don't need to use any zeolite anyway, as bacteria will settle on rocks etc.
using teh zeolite just makes it more effective.
 
OK, let's not let this degenerate. :)

I don't know if anyone has shown that zeolites are better than other media in side by side studies with everything else the same (but perhaps they have).

But if they are (and if so, in what functional way?), the question for those interested is why they would be better for bacterial growth. :)

I thought that the bacteria is also attracted to the iron in the zeolite?


Why would that be?

Many zeolites don't contain iron. Does the one used by zeovit have substantial iron?
 
Let me add that as a 5 year ZeoVit user, my reactor has run 24/7 for the last 4.5 years. Once the tank reached a nutrient poor level, it was no longer necessary to do the on/off.

Not sure how that impacts the thesis, just wanted to share that the on/off process was not a real integral part of the zeo system once established.
 
In other words, the zeolites used in these zeolite systems, are nothing more than "bacteria housing", since Randy already pointed out that the NH4 binding capabilities of zeolites are rapidly depleted after a few hours and there's no proofs that zeolites will continue to exchange ions in a marine environment.

Having read all the English portion of this paper it is interesting as far as biofilms in waste water is concerned but does not mention the use of zeolites. In my mind this does not mean that zeolites are nothing more than bacterial housing. This paper just discuses how a biological filter works when treating waste.

I am still unable to find any definitive studies done using zeolites and bacteria which are performed in salt water. I know what zeovit has claimed in the past about its product and different theories about how they might work, but there has still to my knowledge not been a definitive study done to see what interactions there are between chemical molecules, zeolite and bacteria. I am still sitting on the fence on this one until I see scientific evidence of the benefit of running zeolites in a marine environment. I do also agree that without evidence, it is easy to assume that they are nothing more than a substrate for bacteria.
 
FWIW, some research has shown that coarse aragonite gravel works well to develop natural bacterial biofilms in a reactor. I have not seen any research regarding zeolites. I suspect that used GAC will work as good as any other substrate for biofilm development as long as it is not too fine grained like reef sand. It's interesting that the fine sand substrates do not work as well as the coarse substrate in a bio-reactor. ;)

IME when dosing vinegar my GAC reactor turned into a bio-reactor pretty quickly (within two weeks). The problem is the fine grained GAC I use clogs to quickly. One of these days I will try the cheaper GAC that is coarser and see how it works regarding clogging. :)
 
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Iam also a zeovit user and i think its a great system for achieving ulns zeovit have taken it to the next level with the introduction of bio-mate this stuff mixed with zeo zyme can make your zeolites last a lot longer Aged salt is currently running this experiment on his own tank and is up to the 12 week mark with the same zeolites imo that not bad 3 months
 
zeovit have taken it to the next level with the introduction of bio-mate this stuff mixed with zeo zyme can make your zeolites last a lot longer

What is in bio-mate and what is the functional improvement to a users tank that makes this the "next level"?
 
Bio-mate mixed at 2 drops per 100l with zeo zyme half a teaspoon per 400l dossed every other day thats the dose what it does well at first you would experiance the ugly period (two weeks) where the tank looks ugly because the stored nutrients are been processed after that you will have a very clean substrate live rock and glass plus ive noticed a big improvement in coral growth much longer sps tips and tank is crystal clear
 
forgot to mention phos was at 0.01 for a while but when i started bio-mate two weeks later its at 0.00 hanna checker
 
Do you know what Bio-Mate is?

ive noticed a big improvement in coral growth much longer sps tips and tank is crystal clear

forgot to mention phos was at 0.01 for a while but when i started bio-mate two weeks later its at 0.00 hanna checker


Does that mean that before this "improvement", zeovit tanks were not experiencing good coral growth or clear water or low phosphate?
 
Do you know what Bio-Mate is?

ive noticed a big improvement in coral growth much longer sps tips and tank is crystal clear

forgot to mention phos was at 0.01 for a while but when i started bio-mate two weeks later its at 0.00 hanna checker


Does that mean that before this "improvement", zeovit tanks were not experiencing good coral growth or clear water or low phosphate?
They where experiencing the above but now the zeolites can last longer because the bio-mate (a bacteria of some sort a good one at that) cleans mulm deposits this is what builds up on the zeolites it might not give the ingredients but it certainly does what it says it does everyones tank is differant people feed differant foods do differant things with there systems everyone thats using zeovit might not use it to its peak potential thus the bio-mate helps reduce the phos and its been proven with many zeo users
 
zeovit have taken it to the next level with the introduction of bio-mate this stuff mixed with zeo zyme can make your zeolites last a lot longer

What is in bio-mate and what is the functional improvement to a users tank that makes this the "next level"?

Randy, of course we are not told what is in biomate ... but from my experiment with it, it seems to be a scavenging bacteria, which feeds on mulm and detritus ... it reduced the biofilm by ALOT (almost no more visible biofilm on rocks and glass and sand after 1 week) and is not dependant on C(carbon ) sources as much as denitrifying bacteria are ....

reminds me of the additives that cleans the clogged swage ;)

I do not agree with other poster though ...
no offense Rwpdunne, but you should source your post if you decide to copy and paste from a manual or ... :)



as a result of lowering detritus in my system, which reduce the redox and increased po4 ... I too did experience greater coral growth, but my po4 was zero (hanna checker) before and after use of biomate.
 
They where experiencing the above but now the zeolites can last longer because the bio-mate (a bacteria of some sort a good one at that) cleans mulm deposits this is what builds up on the zeolites

OK, so the advantage of this new bacterial additive is that you have to replace the zeolites less often? Does it cost less than the zeolites?

Does that really meet the criteria for a major advance?
 
id like to know what we can take home from the posted article on the top.

could that be a schedule to turn off pumps in the sump or maybe skimmers? like run them for 6 hours, then let some kind of substrate eg LR rest without great water movement or airation for 3 hours?
 
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