This RO / DI SYSTEM any good?

[ubgone]

AZDesertRat

I don't understand why you don't pay any attention to the 3 OTHER people here with this system who say they have a 0 TDS reading?
You just keep going and going that you won't settle for anything less then 0 TDS...... well, 3 people here who DID use it say they have that 0 TDS mark WITH this system then why are you so sure that this unit will be a junk one?

(I'm not flaming you... I have never owned an R/O unit and I'm just trying to debate the subject to better understand it, so when i will buy my system i will know what to get)

Have YOU ever used it?

BTW I checked it out and the membranes ARE made in the USA.....

 

[anthony34]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9653154#post9653154 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AZDesertRat
Their products are very low end as far as quality of components and the water quality they give you. A TDS of 10 down from 250 is nothing to brag about, I would send it back immediately myself. My tap is 850 and I get 6.2 TDS with RO only before DI.

On their units notice things like they never tell you who makes the membranes or what the true manufacturers rejection ratings are. Their math just does not add up, they say it removes 99% of everything and then go on to use 300 TDS for tap water and 20 after RO, thats not 99% rejection or anywhere near it!
Also they use little hollow horizontal tubes with resin bobbing around in them and not true vertical 10" canisters with 24 oz refillable cartridges. They also use cheap poor performing granular carbon. The list goes on and on.

With RO/DI you get what you pay for and cheap is not it. Expect to pay about $150 for a good performing RO/DI, $199 to $250 for a better one and $350 for the best RO/DI on the market which is the Spectrapure MaxCap RO/DI which cannot be compared to any other unit available from anyone. My vote goes for the MaxCap, it will cost you more initially but it will save you money in replacement costs from then on.

Totally understand where you are coming from, but you have made my point you stated your tap is 850 which would fall into the crappy range thus true you would need a better qualty unit, but not everyone fall into that range including myself thus we do not need to step up to the so called better units to us its a waste of money and if we wanted to say in a year when it comes time to change filters we do have the option to go with a better quality filter down the road if needed. I have compared my unit to a high qualty unit at Homedepot/lowes if you were to change the name you honestly would not tell the difference, other then the fact that some of the units have clear cans, but that can be swapped out as well.

 

[AZDesertRat]

In order to judge the quality of an RO/DI you need three numbers. Tap water TDS, RO only TDS without DI and finally RO/DI TDS. Any unit in the world should (key word, should) give you 0 indicated TDS after DI although thats not always the case.
The workhorse of the system is the RO membrane, if its not giving you somewhere close to 98% rejection then it is not working correctly. Lots of these cheap units have no name knock off membranes constructed with inferior materials and are wound poorly so will never perform up to their bogus claims. The vendor you are looking at falls in that category, they refuse to publish who makes their membranes or to return reoeated attempts to contact them with questions, if you are like me this should be a big red flag.
The reason you want the best rejection possible is for every 2% you increase the membranes efficiency you DOUBLE the life of your DI resin. Thats a significant thing to remember. Why suffer with poor performance and let it cost you money every time you have to replace the DI? As I said before it a pay me now in the case of the MaxCap or pay me later, over and over again forever with the cheap unit. Your cheap unit soon becomes more expensive by far. Plus you will never get the same water quality.

Now for those of you claiming 0 TDS, post your actual numbers from those 3 points and then calculate how much you will use you unit and how many DI replacements that will require, numbers don't lie. I have given you my numbers already "My tap is 850 and I get 6.2 TDS with RO only before DI." With RO/DI it is still less than an indicated 0 using a COM-100 handheld conductivity meter which is much moresensitive than most meters on the market.

 

[carlso63]

I wonder if there will EVER be a thread on RC about hardware that doesn't denigrate into a flame war based on the idea that if you bought something that didn't require you to take out a second mortgage than it must be a "piece of junk"...?


DesertRat: I do totally get your point regarding RO membrane quality, ability to get the TDS down before it hits the DI cartridge, cartridge life, etc.

Anthony34: I also get your point about the initial untreated TDS of your tap having a big effect on how "good" a unit you need in the first place.

Ubgone: get used to it... the overwhelming majority of people here at RC posting an opinion on hardware have never actually owned the hardware in question, they just base their posts on one of a few catagories -

- The abovementioned "If it's not the most expensive than it's junk!" gang...

- The 'passing on hearsay and opinion rather than actual facts or experiences' crew - aka 'my brothers friends wifes doctors friends cousin tiwce removed said he had one of these and it's junk!'...

- The 'The only one that is any good is the one I own" guys...


Not trying to pick on anyone ; just trying to get the job done and still be able to send my 3 teenage kids to college someday...

DesertRat, FWIW I won't be getting a MaxCap because $400 is too rich for my blood; I could afford it but quite frankly I would be annoyed at myself for laying out that much dough for a water purifier... but I do appreciate your input.

 

[AZDesertRat]

You don't have to spend $400. The MaxCap lists for $359 I believe and you can get in on group buys that reduces that significantly as I did. You can get a very good RO/DI for $150 for at least 4 different vendors that I can think of that are true reef quality units using top notch components. Granted they are not the same as a MaxCap but they do a good job and will last a lifetime. There is a big difference between inexpensive and cheap. Cheap is what you find from the vendors on e-bay who sell literal boat loads of junk systems for ridiculous prices and are really crap. Inexpensive is wise shopping and knowing what you are looking for beforehand and asking questions of the vendor. I don't care where you go or what you buy, quality is not cheap. Not with tools, lights, pumps, HDTVs or any other thing.
I bash unscrupulous vendors that are out to make a quick buck off of unsuspecting people who think they are getting the deal of a lifetime while the vendor just twists it a little harder. I do not bash honest vendors who sell a product that lives up to its claims and that they stake their personal reputation on and who will answer your questions honestly. The vendor in question is not in this category.

 

[andydavis141]

awsome debate!!! i am from the never used any of them but my sisters cousin twice removed said this.
i've bought expensive and cheap and inbetween, IMO i'd have to agree with mr.azdesertrat but carlso sound good when he stated that what comes out of your tape to begin with affects your ability to ro/di in the first place. you'all are crazy for knowing this much about ro/di. does anyone know which unit has the least waste and is the most efficent. i'd really like to hear from mr. az but am open to all. in a recent tropical fish hobbist mag i read an ad on poly-bio-marine, inc stateing haw great they are do you have any info on them. supposed to be efficent and super clean. thanks ! andrew

 

[andydavis141]

here's wa the claims are:

3 canister
no tap waste
.20 micronfilter bag removes 99+% of .5 micron bacteria
.5 micron carbon block claims to absorb pesticides/insecides, heavy metals and chlorine & chloramine
it leaves beneficial hardness and minerals?
if i added a di would it be good?

 

[carlso63]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9657703#post9657703 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by andydavis141
awsome debate!!! i am from the never used any of them but my sisters cousin twice removed said this.
i've bought expensive and cheap and inbetween, IMO i'd have to agree with mr.azdesertrat but carlso sound good when he stated that what comes out of your tape to begin with affects your ability to ro/di in the first place. you'all are crazy for knowing this much about ro/di. does anyone know which unit has the least waste and is the most efficent. i'd really like to hear from mr. az but am open to all. in a recent tropical fish hobbist mag i read an ad on poly-bio-marine, inc stateing haw great they are do you have any info on them. supposed to be efficent and super clean. thanks ! andrew

I think the best advice I could give is to have the TDS of your tap water check before you buy anything... if you have a water supply with a high TDS level you may need to get a 'better' unit.

If you have a low TDS level from the tap (like maybe less than say, 400 ppm) you would probably be OK with a unit like this.

In any case, getting a lot of opinions is never a bad idea. Just be prepared to hear some wildly varying opinions, because that is one thing that is a given in this hobby... :lmao:

 

[andydavis141]

i live in cali how would i test for tds and where do i go to get the test?

 

[Reefinator]

im using a $110 aquasafe ro/di unit that i bought off ebay

incoming tds is 590, output is 1 tds

 

[carlso63]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9658257#post9658257 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by andydavis141
i live in cali how would i test for tds and where do i go to get the test?

Some places the water company can tell you, but the best way is to either buy a TDS meter or borrow one from a fellow hobbyist.

They are not too expensive, and - unless the RO / DI unit you buy comes with an integrated meter built in - you will need one to measure how 'pure' your filtered water actually is... and it will tell you when you need to change filter cartridges, etc. (The TDS level will start to creep up from "0" when the cartridges need replacement)

 

[AS11423]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9652252#post9652252 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ubgone
This prices are unbelievable!!

I think that its not fair to say its:
You just called someones product a piece of junk.... And you never even used it!
I think that is real nasty on your part.
P.S I know you will say that you said "almost always" but I think its still unfair.

Have someone ever USED any "Pure Water" products?

Please read my first post carefully. I said "in my humble experience". I hope that clears up any misunderstanding.

 

[AS11423]

It was never my intention to imply the absurd notion of "if it ain't expensive, it's a piece of junk." I simply stated my opinion of that very same--aforementioned--cheaply assembled Chinese unit that I have had the displeasure of owning. And for less than two months, because I had to replace three exhausted membranes within that time period. I concede everyone's right to disagree with my opinion, but folks, come on, this is simply an online medium; don't take it personal.

 

[AZDesertRat]

The most efficient honor belongs to Spectrapure with their MaxCap unit by far. Nothing even comes close to its system due to its hand tested and guaranteed SpectraSelect membranes, absolute rated prefilters and its dual DI system.

The honor for least waste also goes to Spectrapure with their soon to be introduced microprocessor controlled system with a 1:1 waste ratio.

Kold Steril units are not all they are advertised to be. They are not as selcetive as they claim and will never see 0 TDS. There are tons of threads here on RC that discuss their weaknesses so I won't even go into it. Better than a Pur or Britta but nowhere near a RO or RO/DI.

 

[ubgone]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9658242#post9658242 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by carlso63
I think the best advice I could give is to have the TDS of your tap water check before you buy anything... if you have a water supply with a high TDS level you may need to get a 'better' unit.

If you have a low TDS level from the tap (like maybe less than say, 400 ppm) you would probably be OK with a unit like this.

In any case, getting a lot of opinions is never a bad idea. Just be prepared to hear some wildly varying opinions, because that is one thing that is a given in this hobby... :lmao:

I think that is a great advice and answer:
It all depends on your tap TDS, and if its very high then its better to have a strong unit.

AZDesertRat

I think that the most important thing about an RO/DI unit is the quality of the filters, so to be honest I don't give a diddly squat where the plastic that holds the filters is made! for all I care it could be made at the vendor's back yard using sun, a magnifying glass and some old GI joes for plastic!!!
So what if it will break? we build 5 ft skimmers but a small plastic hold to keep the filters in place is that complicated?

If you could show me that all those filters thet "Pure Water" keeps ARE made in china then that will be another story... but you don't know that, right?

I will ask you a question:
Do you think that this unit:
Purely H2O
is better then this unit:

Pure Water Club

explain why you think so...







BTW- carlso63:

I wonder if there will EVER be a thread on RC about hardware that doesn't denigrate into a flame war based on the idea that if you bought something that didn't require you to take out a second mortgage than it must be a "piece of junk"...?


DesertRat: I do totally get your point regarding RO membrane quality, ability to get the TDS down before it hits the DI cartridge, cartridge life, etc.

Anthony34: I also get your point about the initial untreated TDS of your tap having a big effect on how "good" a unit you need in the first place.

Ubgone: get used to it... the overwhelming majority of people here at RC posting an opinion on hardware have never actually owned the hardware in question, they just base their posts on one of a few catagories -

- The abovementioned "If it's not the most expensive than it's junk!" gang...

- The 'passing on hearsay and opinion rather than actual facts or experiences' crew - aka 'my brothers friends wifes doctors friends cousin tiwce removed said he had one of these and it's junk!'...

- The 'The only one that is any good is the one I own" guys...

great post man! True and funny!

 

[aquarius77]

My tap is 150, Before RO 120, after RO 2-3, after DI 0, How do i do the math to figure out how many gallons of water i should be able to make?

Whats the point in a dual DI? One pass should be good enough to get it to 0.

 

[REHEM]

"If you could show me that all those filters that "Pure Water" keeps ARE made in china then that will be another story..."-ubgone

## Stage-4: TFC (made in USA) 100 GPD RO Membrane##
<img src=http://59.124.16.10/items/Pic/22-08.jpg>

The RO membrane of the Pure Water unit IS made in the USA. See the big American flag on the front of the @!#$%&* filter?

The original question here was whether or not this was a good RO/DI unit. It has been established that it depends on the TDS of your individual incoming tap water that should be the determining factor in your RO/DI unit purchase. It has also been determined that a reading of ZERO TDS of your processed RO/DI water is the best end result for your aquatic environment.

You can purchase TDS test kits (that will give you a TDS reading of your incoming tap water) from Ace Hardware, which are similar to the paper strip tests for ph, nitrates, etc. They are inexpensive and fairly accurate. If you have a reading of 400 or lower, the Pure Water unit will work just fine. If your incoming tap water is high like AZdesertrat's whopping 850! then you will need a serious unit designed to handle such deposit loads.

For the record, and statistically speaking of course, rainwater has an average TDS reading of 10ppm. (Depending on your geographic location, this will definately be higher in say L.A. and New York as compared to Alaska.) Rain water is nature's way of "topping off the BIG tank", and spiritually speaking, if 10ppm is good enough for "the Big Guy" it's good enough for me!

With this particular Pure Water unit that I purchased for $99 off of ebay:
With an incoming tap water TDS reading of 257, I get RO/DI processed water coming out with an average TDS reading of 5. I use the water regularly for my weekly water changes and daily top-offs with wonderful results. I have found that Xenia are a good, natural test kit for water parameters and conditions, and my Xenia crop is thriving!
<img src=http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w16/KOLE1357/30galOccupants.jpg>


My Xenia like this Pure Water unit, I like this Pure Water Unit, and my 2 cats like this Pure Water unit. Can't we call this one CASE CLOSED?

 

[ubgone]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9659774#post9659774 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by REHEM
"If you could show me that all those filters that "Pure Water" keeps ARE made in china then that will be another story..."-ubgone

## Stage-4: TFC (made in USA) 100 GPD RO Membrane##
<img src=http://59.124.16.10/items/Pic/22-08.jpg>

The RO membrane of the Pure Water unit IS made in the USA. See the big American flag on the front of the @!#$%&* filter?

The original question here was whether or not this was a good RO/DI unit. It has been established that it depends on the TDS of your individual incoming tap water that should be the determining factor in your RO/DI unit purchase. It has also been determined that a reading of ZERO TDS of your processed RO/DI water is the best end result for your aquatic environment.

You can purchase TDS test kits (that will give you a TDS reading of your incoming tap water) from Ace Hardware, which are similar to the paper strip tests for ph, nitrates, etc. They are inexpensive and fairly accurate. If you have a reading of 400 or lower, the Pure Water unit will work just fine. If your incoming tap water is high like AZdesertrat's whopping 850! then you will need a serious unit designed to handle such deposit loads.

For the record, and statistically speaking of course, rainwater has an average TDS reading of 10ppm. (Depending on your geographic location, this will definately be higher in say L.A. and New York as compared to Alaska.) Rain water is nature's way of "topping off the BIG tank", and spiritually speaking, if 10ppm is good enough for "the Big Guy" it's good enough for me!

With this particular Pure Water unit that I purchased for $99 off of ebay:
With an incoming tap water TDS reading of 257, I get RO/DI processed water coming out with an average TDS reading of 5. I use the water regularly for my weekly water changes and daily top-offs with wonderful results. I have found that Xenia are a good, natural test kit for water parameters and conditions, and my Xenia crop is thriving!
<img src=http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w16/KOLE1357/30galOccupants.jpg>


My Xenia like this Pure Water unit, I like this Pure Water Unit, and my 2 cats like this Pure Water unit. Can't we call this one CASE CLOSED?

I'm totally with you on this man!!!! I agree with you 100%.....

I really got myself more great knowledge of RO/DI units!

I only have one more Q if you don't mind

I would want to use my RO unit as a drinking water unit also...
I heared of somthing that is called " Mineralizer" which is supposed to add all the important minerals to the water (after the RO) + improve the flavor, anyone ever heared about it?

BTW is the RO water taste that bad? (I heared people say that it tastes very different the regular water)

 

[REHEM]

I know we're on the same page ubgone...I was just trying to show others that the RO membrane IS made in the USA. In my personal opinion, if you remove the patriotic factor of buying American, I imagine that the Chinese manage to put out a very competitive, quality water filter!

The last stage of the Pure Water unit is granular activated carbon to improve the taste and odor. I think the water tastes fine and dandy, but it is VERY sterile. It probably just tastes funny to some people because they are used to drinking contaminated city water or mineral/well water. I've never heard of a "Mineralizer".

But I do add Kent Marine Superbuffer dKH to my RO/DI water before using it for top offs or water changes. The RO/DI unit strips the water of virtually EVERYTHING, so you need to add a buffer to stabilize the pH and rebuild the carbonate hardness (KH) before adding it to your tank.

<img src=http://www.petco.com/Assets/product_images/5/5190600004B.jpg>

 

[anthony34]

As a general rule of thumb of the PPM

0 - 50 - RO Water (Acceptable range)
50 - 170 - Spring Water (Acceptable range)
170 - 200 - Hard Water
200 - 300 - Marginal at best
300 - 500 - Unplesent water (crappy)