Thoughts about keeping a harlequin shrimp

[Auston]

I'd like to keep one of these as my centerpiece inhabitant.
I have never had one before I know they only eat star fish so I had some thoughts and would like some feedback.

I have a six gallon tank and the tank is a Coraline growing machine. There seems to be alot of talk online that asterina starfish eat coriline, is this true?.

My thinking was that I would introduce the pest starfish, they would feed on the Coraline and multiply and then be the food source for the shrimp and hopefully find a balance between Coraline growth, starfish population and food supply.

I'm probably way off with this idea but let me know what you think

 

[2_zoa]

I kept a male and female pair for a while. Lots of fun. Though it became increasingly difficult to locate starfish to keep them fed. I would buy a chocolate chip star every few weeks for them.

Your plan with the asterina stars is not going to work. They will very quickly run out of food.

Others have said they kept 5-6 chocolate chip stars in the sump. They eat coral remember. Then they would cut off a leg from one of the stars and rotate through the bunch giving time for them to regrow their legs. I've never done this so I can only comment to this based on what I've read.

Good luck

 

[Orsamax]

Please let us know how it goes because I'd like to have one someday and I'd like to know if what 2 zoa described works...

 

[Auston]

Ya I was just watching a video saying they eat 12 or more of those little starfish so I see the problem with that idea. The chocolate chip idea would work I'd imagine but kind of sucks that your butchering starfish all the time.

 

[IowaReefer]

These shrimp are best left in the ocean due to their hyper-specialized feeding requirements.

 

[sde1500]

These shrimp are best left in the ocean due to their hyper-specialized feeding requirements.

For species with super specialized and hard to feed requirements I'd agree. But for these shrimp, their food source is known and readily available, so what would the issue be?

 

[mattgumaer]

I wouldn't keep one unless I was willing to feed chocolate chip legs or similar. I don't think any tank will have enough asterina or mini-brittles to keep one or more fed for long. The shrimp will wipe them out and then starve in all likelihood.

Matt

 

[IowaReefer]

For species with super specialized and hard to feed requirements I'd agree. But for these shrimp, their food source is known and readily available, so what would the issue be?

Mutilating another animal to feed them does not seem particularly enjoyable or sustainable in the long term, but to each their own I guess. Just voicing my opinion since it was requested.

 

[2_zoa]

Mutilating another animal to feed them does not seem particularly enjoyable or sustainable in the long term, but to each their own I guess. Just voicing my opinion since it was requested.

I really wanted to leave this alone but I just can't. I'm sure this will sound as though I'm an a$$. However....."mutilating another animal to feed them" is really the part that gets me in your post.

You or someone else that you find interesting is holding a dead lion fish up on the end of a spear....
Do you own corals? We don't mutilate them for profit?

 

[IowaReefer]

I really wanted to leave this alone but I just can't. I'm sure this will sound as though I'm an a$$. However....."mutilating another animal to feed them" is really the part that gets me in your post.

You or someone else that you find interesting is holding a dead lion fish up on the end of a spear....
Do you own corals? We don't mutilate them for profit?

Yes, in fact that is me in the picture harvesting invasive lionfish in Roatan for a program run by their marine sanctuary. Google it if you are not aware of the problem. Judging by your prodigious number of posts, I feel like you are arguing with me just for something to do and will unsubscribe now. Hopefully the OP got the advice they were looking for.

 

[2_zoa]

Yes, in fact that is me in the picture harvesting invasive lionfish in Roatan for a program run by their marine sanctuary. Google it if you are not aware of the problem. Judging by your prodigious number of posts, I feel like you are arguing with me just for something to do and will unsubscribe now. Hopefully the OP got the advice they were looking for.

You clearly don't like looking at yourself and understanding that you play a part in all of what the hobby is. Regardless of how obtuse your point of view is.

 

[Auston]

Do you own corals? We don't mutilate them for profit?

That's a really good point corals are often damaged for the sake of fragging. Guess I'll think about the whole idea over the next while. Anyone who has havested star fish for these guys what are your thoughts

 

[sde1500]

Mutilating another animal to feed them does not seem particularly enjoyable or sustainable in the long term, but to each their own I guess. Just voicing my opinion since it was requested.

I can see the complaint there though that is one method. One could simply feed whole starfish too, which is no different than any other live food feeding we do, albeit more expensive.

 

[buildinboats]

Your plan with the asterina stars is not going to work. They will very quickly run out of food. /QUOTE]

+1 They will wipe out your Asterina population in a matter of weeks.

 

[alton]

I had a 65 that was overloaded with Asterina stars and in six months the count got too low and the shrimp perished. An then I manually removed Asterina's until they were no more.

 

[Orsamax]

Nature is chaos. Not to go philosophical, but it is constantly represented as the archetype of chaos. It lives on the balance of order (birth, sexual maturity, mating, procreating) and chaos (death through either violence, disease, old age, or malnutrition). Reef keeping is so darn enjoyable because unlike many domestic pets, it is a full ecosystem in a glass (or acrylic) box as opposed to keeping say a dog or cat in isolation. There is utter chaos inside our reefs as fish eat copepods, hermits eat algae, and sometimes anemones eat fish. But there is also order as we purposefully build full food pyramids and select "dominant" species to "rule" over the others. The question of morality in reef keeping is a significant one. To what degree does our desire to create order (a functioning ecosystem with growth, procreation, and health) come at the expense of chaos (death, consumption, starvation, disease, malnutrition)? Which organisms do we allow to thrive (the ones that we value?) and which ones do we allow to die (the ones that we subjectively dislike? some people HATE asterina starfish, others love them)? I'm not choosing sides in the debate. I'm merely pointing out that most of us live on the balance of order and chaos, but where that border lies is very subjective. In a sense, we are really playing "god" in our little ecosystems, and that certainly should come with some level of respect and awe for the moral decisions that we make.

 

[Crusty Old Shellback]

orsamax,
THANK YOU!

So wher does your moral stance on your tank stand? Will you keep the shrimp and kill the star fish and enjoy the beauty in your tank, as it would be in nature?

Or will you think it better to be morally conscience in your mind and leave the shrimp in the ocean?

If t was my tank, I'd have several star fish in my sump.

Starfish loose limbs all the time in the wild. That's why they have the unique ability to regrow them.

 

[2_zoa]

Nature is chaos. Not to go philosophical, but it is constantly represented as the archetype of chaos. It lives on the balance of order (birth, sexual maturity, mating, procreating) and chaos (death through either violence, disease, old age, or malnutrition). Reef keeping is so darn enjoyable because unlike many domestic pets, it is a full ecosystem in a glass (or acrylic) box as opposed to keeping say a dog or cat in isolation. There is utter chaos inside our reefs as fish eat copepods, hermits eat algae, and sometimes anemones eat fish. But there is also order as we purposefully build full food pyramids and select "dominant" species to "rule" over the others. The question of morality in reef keeping is a significant one. To what degree does our desire to create order (a functioning ecosystem with growth, procreation, and health) come at the expense of chaos (death, consumption, starvation, disease, malnutrition)? Which organisms do we allow to thrive (the ones that we value?) and which ones do we allow to die (the ones that we subjectively dislike? some people HATE asterina starfish, others love them)? I'm not choosing sides in the debate. I'm merely pointing out that most of us live on the balance of order and chaos, but where that border lies is very subjective. In a sense, we are really playing "god" in our little ecosystems, and that certainly should come with some level of respect and awe for the moral decisions that we make.

I'll ask, on what level do you decide what lives and what does? Your post is very on point. It covers a lot of ground and I hope those reading don't get hung up on the things that they can see. Life is much more finite than simply what can be seen.

Off topic.......
My buddy ordered a truck load of gravel. While that truck was on the way to his house an elderly woman lost her life....she drifted across the center line and a head on collision ensued between her and the truckload of gravel.
Would she still be alive today had he not ordered gravel? Or would someone else be gone because it wouldn't have been a semi truck that she hit????

Every decision we make in our daily lives affects the world around. Not just "œUS" either. Wether we want it to or not.

orsamax,
THANK YOU!

So wher does your moral stance on your tank stand? Will you keep the shrimp and kill the star fish and enjoy the beauty in your tank, as it would be in nature?

Or will you think it better to be morally conscience in your mind and leave the shrimp in the ocean?

If t was my tank, I'd have several star fish in my sump.

Starfish loose limbs all the time in the wild. That's why they have the unique ability to regrow them.

Thank you!!
How many time have you crossed the equator?

 

[Orsamax]

Shellback, thank you. My grandpa was a sea-bee. Dunno what shellbacks thoughts are on them, but he hopped islands in WWII so thank all of you sea folk. I’m actually Army myself (active). Infantry O type for over 10 years. Seen both current flavors of sandbox. I’ve recently transitioned to an analysis and research branch and really enjoy it. If you do it right and are patient, the military can take good care of you and your family, if you are flexible enough.
2 zoa, I didn’t want to pick sides because I don’t want to make people on here feel like I’m attacking them. Seen some snarky and outright rude comments when people ask genuine questions or make simple typos. Why do we eat our own in here. I’m not a pacifist, I just know that the enemy is probably not in our forums. The enemy is the place that sells a rookie a 30 gallon setup along with a hippo tang and a bottle of (stale) bacteria. Everyone on here is trying to learn and help others along the way to making a good reef that will preserve our cool little hobby. But answer you I must. I think that I try to judge my actions against nature. I don’t hurt things in my tank just because I can. I have all sorts of critters in my live rock that some don’t like (I don’t judge those who remove them, either). But to the question at hand, I think keeping 5-10 chocolate chip stars otherwise healthy in a sump and occasionally cutting off an arm is something that certainly happens in nature. Heck, it’s a lot better than a novice taking it home to an unstable setup. We feed our mandarins copepods. I don’t know that starfish are any more sentient than copepods (biologists?). The copepod dies. In our scenario the starfish lives and heals. Also, I am no scientist, but it is certainly a possibility that in our lifetimes, our tanks could turn into living museums if the reefs begin to disappear. I think it worth thinking of them as possible mini arks (Noah’s ark) that preserve species for whom there is no ecosystem left in the wild. Maybe too dramatic, but so was my first post, lol! But I try to keep a beautiful tank with every layer of the food pyramid intact. I only intervene when something is out of whack. Not an imperative. No judgement on sterile acro tanks with NO critters, just fish...just my preference. My wife saw a huge bristle worm I didn’t even know I had in my tank last night. I’m out of town. It’s cool to be surprised about what is in your little cube of the wild wild ocean. It’s fun.
As for the truck and gravel, I guess I’m a little more of a person that believes in fate. I place no blame on the order for gravel. Unless your friend has premonitions or something!
Best of luck to all.

 

[Crusty Old Shellback]

My first crossing was in '86 on a world cruise, USS Halsey (CG 23). Back when the initition ment something. Crossed 4 times in my 21 year carrier. Made Chief in '98 and was initiated with a bunch of Sea Bees at the Sea Bee base in Port Hueneme, CA.

Most people dont realise that the creatures we keep for pets/amusement in our glass boxes are seen as food by a lot of people around the world. I've actually eaten a queen trigger fish I caught off the coast of Baja in the sea of Cortez while camping. Tasted really good cooked over the camp fire with some tequila and garlic.

Remember the cows we eat for steak and such is a sacred animal in some countries.
You have to look at the bigger picture sometimes