Thoughts on the keeping of Zs and Ps and reefing

[khaosinc]

DITTO on the BRAVO.

Thanks for the compliment. I'm a little excessive I know, but I don't have kids and have a cheap house so its alot easier for mo than many. I've toyed with starting up a fragging tank to try and offset my electric bill but I have alot of real estate to get to grow in still first.

The other thing I think people forget when they see the huge prices is the cost people have to offset just to be able to grow corals in alot of the time. Water changes, high end lighting and equipment, dehumidifiers and chillers to keep your house from rotting out from under you plus getting the frags to start with. not to mention having your main tank and its costs. I bet a mid sized hobby fragger needs $500 a month profit just to break even

 

[MUCHO REEF]

This comment is from a PM to MUCHO REEF where we were talking a little about the context of this thread, and it was asked that I share it...

*****
I actually have people question that I'm really selling "the real deal" because the prices are so low. I keep finding that too many people are developing a mentality that a $5 or $10 frag is automatically junk, no matter what that frag really is. It's at minimum saddening, and sometimes sickening.
*****

For all the zoa and paly lovers reading that... Don't go rushing to the classifieds looking for a sale thread by me, because you won't find one. Sorry... My life has led me to need to focus more on other things far more important that trying to sell frags for the time being. Look at it this way though -- in the meantime, whatever I may have that someone might want is growing more polyps and at some point I'll be forced to sell frags of them because I'll simply run out of room in my tanks. If you run into a sale thread of mine at that time and decide to buy, great -- you won't be disappointed. Please don't PM me asking what I have or what I can sell, that's not the purpose of this at all.

At the same time, please don't take that comment as me trying to be some sort of higher power in a war to lower prices. I'm not leading a crusade or pretending to be doing so. I've sold small numbers of polyps for much closer to market pricing. Ironically, in a few cases, I felt the need to sell some frags at closer to market pricing just so they would generate enough interest to sell. I'll gladly admit that I've made some of my money back on some of the polyps with fancy names, it's no secret. It's just a shame that price is too often an indicator of authenticity.

I will never understand why someone would want to pay more for something in order to feel that they have something of more value, rarity or importance as if the price somehow validates the polyp itself. This is another negative component of the pricing/naming correlation. Pricing appears to [some] to be an indicator as you said, of authenticity.

Thanks again for sharing this.

Mucho Reef

 

[kichimark]

650--if I lived closer I would build it for you. I have built 5 AR'S and 1 AK. My favorite though is my M1A...thats my sweetheart. Didn't build that though...bought her haha. Anyways I am seeing something familiar here. Even on the gun boards you will see something very similar to what you and everyone else is seeing with the zoas (ridiculous prices, fads, less helping and more bragging and flaming, latest tacticool gear, etc etc) I remember arguing with a gent over the different AK's (diff manufactures). He stated a certain brand was a POS because it is cheaper while I defended it because it is the same exact thing as the higher more expensive types. The only difference is that it didnt have mag dimples and the wood was not finished (had to be sealed yourself...everyone should know and work with their weapon anyways). I have one of these and another "higher grade" types and honestly there really is no big difference. People just get upset when you say their 800 dollar AK is the same as a 300 dollar AK (maybe like those expensive z's and p's being the same as the ones mentioned when offered for cheaper)

Wow...I just had to remind myself im on reefcentral haha. Anyways i just got into Z's and P's and honestly I am happy folks like you are still here. Sure you're interest might wane a little but if you really didnt care you would have just left but you didn't and I hope you and the others don't leave. I and many other "newbies" to these corals can use your expert advice and experience. Imagine if all the great reefers left...who would be around to show how things should really be done?

btw...if you need a link on how to put your lpk (lower parks kit) into your lower receiver hit me up.

 

[TeebD]

Hobbies come and go...I did the exact opposite of you. I went from cars to guns to aquariums. I can tell you this much, this is a MUCH cheaper hobby than guns or cars. At least with this hobby you can grow out/trade help sustain the hobby. If I could get HK's to breed and make little HK's, I'd still be actively collecting. When the price of ammo went up, it really made it hard to stay in. I have about 10 different calibers and a trip to the range could go through $300-$400 in ammo.

 

[kichimark]

TeebD--I so agree with you haha. When I saw the price of one utter chaos I thought to myself that used to buy me a thousand rounds of .308 shipped. Ah the good old days. I am so glad I bought cheaped and stacked deep. Your comment on if you could make HK's breed to make little HK's....LMAO...dude I havnt laughed that hard in three days haha.

 

[90greefman]

Just to comment on the reefing portion of the initial thread, this whole hobby is overpriced. Im amazed at the prices for everything. A custom sump can run up to $1000 easily. Lighting is just as bad. Then you get into skimmers and other necessities before you even put a z or p in your tank. All I have to say is I have my 90g reef tank and thats probably all I will ever own. At least I know if I buy and expensive z or p it will grow and I can trade it down the road for another one I like and all it will cost me is shipping. I have been back in this hobby for 2 years and still enjoy it. I look forward to getting a new z or p when I can and trade as often as possible. All I know is the probability of ever getting a larger tank is slim to none simply for the start up cost.

 

[TeebD]

This really isn't that bad. Try about $1k for a decent AR, another $500 for decent optics, can easily spend several hundred just on accessories and then $8 or so for each mag you go through. It's rough. I know I've blown through at least $5k in ammo over the past few years. Luckily people will pay more for coral than empty brass.:uzi:

 

[650-IS350]

all I can say is with paying up to for 1K for an Upper/300 for complete lower, 500-1200for sights, those WON'T melt on you over night. And for that total price it would equal you only getting a several+ polyps of Red Hornets or similar newly hyped polyps, but those can melt on you over night, harbor nasties that can also take out your other polyp collection ( unseen spider, nudis, pox etc )

 

[koll12]

Don't give up yet we appriate all your hard work on here !!

 

[Friday Night]

OK Charles if your throwing in the towel.. i GUESS i will adopt your corals jeeezz....

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Maybe this is something I should say in private, but Charles, I think you have already made up your mind. If you have, don't sweat it, cause I perfectly understand. I see sooooo many reefers from this forum and other forums who have left the hobby. Many for the same reasons you have stated in your original post. Pricing, hyping, gouging, photoshopping etc are slowly causing the zoas hobby to implode.

 

[90greefman]

Sounds like you are burnt out. Keep life simple and do things you enjoy.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Well, I hope there was something we said Charles to help my friend. Good luck.

Mooch

 

[kawicivic]

My recommendation, if you decide to get out, would be to keep you tank set up for while in minimalist mode. Do a water change when you think about it and feed the fish when you think about it. You might find that you have a renewed interest after a little break, and the hit you take selling equipment is ridiculous. It is also nice when you still have a few of your original corals left. There is something about being able to say "I've had that for X years" that just makes you feel good. Good luck in whatever you do!

 

[650-IS350]

You'll find my decision, if/when you start to see massive amounts of forsale threads in the near future.

 

[Stusdesktop]

I have a lot of sympathy for the OP, seems like there is a great deal of hype around Zoas/Palys and it also seems like there is a massive rush "for the next big thing".

One thing I will say is that you need to look at why you're keeping a tank to begin with. Is it to have the latest and greatest collection (if so that is going to be bloody frustrating and expensive). Is it to have every rock covered with corals of some sort (can be as expensive as you want but also time consuming). Conversely is it to have a complete eco-system running that works all the way from the sand bed to the surface.

There are probably a million more reasons to have a reef tank as well, each one of us needs to decide on our reasons and make peace with ourselves about how much we are willing to invest into our hobby - That investment can be some ratio of time and cash depending on where you want to draw a line.

As a personal point of view I don't want the latest/greatest/newest thing on the block. I'm not willing to spend the amounts being asked for something that will give me no more pleasure or enjoyment than a $20 frag. What i want is a complete system that has life from the bottom of the sand bed right through to the surface. The livestock going into my system is there to either do a job (worms, pods, snails etc) or is there because it appeals to me. The Zoas/Palys are in there for their colours and shapes. I have reds, blues, purples, greens, yellows and oranges. There are others I would like but they are reasonable, Kedds reds, Fire and Ice are a couple of named Zoas that appeal.

The softies in the tank are there for shape and movement. The colours are more muted but they appeal on a different level to the Zoas/palys. Watching Anthelia and Xenia is mesmerizing (and the growth can be amazing too).

This is what pleases me, not having a single polyp of the latest blue/green//black hornet that can only be brought with a mortgage for a single polyp - your milage may vary

 

[SIR PATRICK]

650 (aka charles)-

Ive been there. I have taken a few brakes over the last 12 years. Keep your favorite tank and your best equipment.....you will be back! No sence on loosing a ton of $$$ selling off great stuff, when you will wish you had it in a year or so. Sell your corals privatly too. Send them to good safe places. Never know when you will want a frag back and its nice to know where to find them!

I have lost alot a couple times before I learned. Figured I would pass on the knowledge/lesson I have learned, as you have me on the polyp keeping subjects.

Here lately, I myself have gotten kinda tired of the whole zoa/paly scene. I found a group of corals with very little hype/competition/marketing, and have been very happy with what direction my tank is going again. Of course there will be polyps in there, but the ones I will be keeping will be found/baught soley on how the colors/size fit in in the new reef I will be building.

Heres a sneak peek where I am headed-

Need some trachy's and fungia plates still....



Whichever direction you go-

I will see you when you are back!!! After you get the gun together with all the bells and whistles, you will get a small nanao or somthing and the upgrade bug will bite again!

 

[phil121]

I am sorry to see that Charles 650-IS350. I hope you hang around and stay in the hobby, but I certainly understand how you feel. I was up to four tanks at one time and am now down to 1. A 55g, with 6x54 NEP t5's, a HOB skimmer, two pumps, heater, and a biowheel, minus the wheel, that I run GAC/GFO in. I still enjoy this hobby, but only because I massively simplified my stuff. It takes minimal time now for me to maintain my tank.

This can definitely be a frustrating hobby. While I have never much talked to you, I absolutely have enjoyed reading your comments and threads! You have a lot of knowledge and information. Because of that, I hope you stay with it, we need guys (and gals) like you.

Whatever you end up deciding, good luck with your future hobbies!

I am from Texas, got a lot of gun enthusiast here, lol. Just not me. :-D

Btw, 650-IS350.... Is that a Lexus IS350 with 650hp or does it have some other meaning? That would be a smokin' car for sure.... Didn't know you were into cars until this thread, but I have wondered about that for a couple of years now.

 

[650-IS350]

thanks all for the replies. All is in the back burner in regards to taking down the final tank. I'm just looking at it now, no longer messing with it or buying stuff for it every week like I used to. I haven't done a water change in like a month or so ( I know bad me... ) but doing 10% today and thurs.

650- is the location LOL I don't know if its possible to harness more than 450 out of a 350. without blowing it.

Pat- I wouldn't mess with chalices man. They WAY more priced, named and hyped.... Price per millimeter on those things are triple that of overpriced Z's and P's... and how many variations of watermelons do you have?

 

[KafudaFish]

1. The hobby can be considered a life long one and ebb and flow of interest is perfectly normal. You said you no longer do WC, how about seeing how that affects your polyps. Remember when geoman (I cannot remember his name but he had the lookdown zoa tank that he left alone for almost a year and it was doing great?
2. It is hard but you should not allow external sources to drive you away from the hobby if you still like it. Deep down you probably do and will.
3. Perhaps by staying active on here you will find something to inspire you. Maybe develop a hornet factory and drive prices down.
4. As far as the money and insane pricing this is a hobby afterall and if someone feels better paying $1K for a coral that may die I won’t stop them from doing it. Would I ever spend that much or even $20 for a single polyp. No. But as with anything in life someone is going to pay more, have more than someone else but that does not always relate to the enjoyment level.
5. These comments are coming from someone with an empty 95 sitting in his living room. I had a leaking bulkhead, and threw everything in a 29 that is sitting behind my stand and I only look at it a minute every other day to feed the fish. Honestly I don’t miss that tank and will probably store it under my house until the drive is back. There is something I have been wanting to do for a long time and this summer I am going to do it. This was the basis of my purple death question.
As far as naming goes I understand the need but I don’t buy into all of the hype either and I don’t believe that a name makes the coral any more enjoyable.


Hang in there.