Through the Looking Glass

[watchguy123]

being Canadian, I gotta say YAY for the blueberry wine.
and as I've said before, I adore that shazam.. I can't seem to find it here..

Just read your article. Very Nice!
Mark, I wouldn't even go down the supplement road, if I had a tank like yours...
The group of elements I looked for to supplement to supplement my tank with were: zinc, Iodine/flourine, Manganese, potassium and iron. This was to keep both my cheato and corals happy...
This is added via Prodibio Bioptim and AF Iodine+AF Flourine- added every saturday and Wednesday
I also add AF Vitamins and AF Build each night- along with a pinch of Polyplab's reef roids/Fauna Marin Reef Vitality.
Lately, I have been also adding a pinch of FM Coral Balance and Coral Sprint...AND Prodibio's reef booster which is omega fatty acids...
So, in short, I even add the kitchen sink!
Otherwise my system is similar to yours - mh/t5/led lighting, cheato fuge, lots of biomedia, lots of well fed fish and always some n but often too much p (.1-.2)

Do I want to use all of this stuff?? good question... the products I use have been a slow accumulation of trial and error and up to now, this recipe is working for me..
Could I stop? good question.. Will I try to stop? No, because it is working for me..
Do i think you should start? No, because what you are doing is working for you.... and ME when I drool over your corals!
If I had the incredible results you have without dosing all the stuff I dose, I would NEVER have begun using them..

I have no intention of changing what I am currently doing. I have a curiosity about additives, an intellectual and scientific interest

Why would you change anything with a tank looking like that? I'd be conservative and spend my time taking pictures of these beauties.

I'm really impressed by your colors and the health of your corals. You are doing it right that's for sure.

Additives and there have been endless products marketed to reefers over the years, often have a reputation as snake oil. But new products get introduced regularly because there is interest. It is, as we all know, challenging establishing a reef tank to successfully allow for sps to thrive. And so we each look ro find a way to increase our successes.

We each achieve or perceive our success at different end points. First, we shoot for not having an sps/rtn on introduction , then we look for growth then ultimately color. And given the difficulty, we all stumble at different points and time.

And so therein lies the interest. Are there products that truly increase growth and/or color. And if so what are they and why. There are complete systems as well as specific additives marketed-promoted and I would like to better understand their rationale, heck even their science.

Some of the many things I would like to know, why is zinc or manganese or other elements suggested by some . Why add bottled bacterial strains, do they really survive and is there truly a need for added diversity. Are there really things like color supplements. Why aminos"”aren't all the building blocks free floating already? Why would one assume (or not assume) that fish food doesn't provide all the missing elements once our fish have excreted it. So although I don't add additives, so many do utilize them and advocate their use"”so my curiosity asks why, which ones and ultimately do you think they really work.

Nutritional and bacterial additives is a large market within reefing and I would like to know more. We are all real or imagined scientists, we should know and understand this topic better. Maybe I need to introduce a thread on the topic to get some input.


And back to what I enjoy doing, sharing a photo of one of my current favorites:

Z's Paradise

 

[jroovers]

First and foremost, you have some amazing SPS! The coloration you've achieved is off the charts also

By reading your most recent posts, I really think you've answered your own question - no, additives are not necessary to obtain incredible coloration and coral health - I can't really see how your colors get any better, and all you're doing is feeding your fish.

I really think the answer is finding the nutrient edge of the knife, and staying there, and additives (whether AA's, nitrates, coral "foods") can help find that edge by adding more nutrient. IME, I really do think that a 10% water change every one or two weeks helps my corals, with the theory being is replenishes trace elements, and feeding the fish just the right amount (not too much or too little), can be enough to produce spectacular results. Although I can't claim to have any success near what you've experienced, especially of late!

 

[gregkn73]

I admire the last year your excellent collection and coloration of your sps, read many times that your tank is not ready in your eyes for an fts, but just minutes ago I red the begining of your thread where actually you had an fts! So can you please clarify time when did you start your currently sps colonies and how did you achieve those amazing results? What is you routine? How often do you change water, bailing or calcium reactor? Refugium or ATS or just skimmer? Any kind of carbon dosing? Do you use gfo or and carbon?No additives at all?how many fish and how often and what do you feed? Please share your "secret"

Sent from my Tab2A7-10F using Tapatalk

 

[reefmutt]

It’s funny.. it’s taken me a good two years of experimenting and playing with so many different products and I have recently come up with my current crazy regimen for making my corals happy and colorful.
I am happy with my color but only reasonably happy with growth and general health...
Mark, your system always, ALWAYS makes me question whether I should try to ween my tank off of everything...
Hm..

 

[watchguy123]

First and foremost, you have some amazing SPS! The coloration you've achieved is off the charts also

By reading your most recent posts, I really think you've answered your own question - no, additives are not necessary to obtain incredible coloration and coral health - I can't really see how your colors get any better, and all you're doing is feeding your fish.

I really think the answer is finding the nutrient edge of the knife, and staying there, and additives (whether AA's, nitrates, coral "foods") can help find that edge by adding more nutrient. IME, I really do think that a 10% water change every one or two weeks helps my corals, with the theory being is replenishes trace elements, and feeding the fish just the right amount (not too much or too little), can be enough to produce spectacular results. Although I can't claim to have any success near what you've experienced, especially of late!

Your photos are the ones that motivated me to work harder at my photography.

It does seem to be a pretty simple formula, monitor alk and keep it stable, 10% weekly water changes, clean the skimmer, change the socks a couple times a week, trim the chaeto and make sure youre giving it good light, and 10% water changes. That formula seems to work most of the time. And of course, the Goldilocks rule for feeding the fish, not too much and not too little.

I admire the last year your excellent collection and coloration of your sps, read many times that your tank is not ready in your eyes for an fts, but just minutes ago I red the begining of your thread where actually you had an fts! So can you please clarify time when did you start your currently sps colonies and how did you achieve those amazing results? What is you routine? How often do you change water, bailing or calcium reactor? Refugium or ATS or just skimmer? Any kind of carbon dosing? Do you use gfo or and carbon?No additives at all?how many fish and how often and what do you feed? Please share your "secret"

Sent from my Tab2A7-10F using Tapatalk

Really no secrets. I test or atleast tell myself to test alk and nitrates weekly and preferably twice a week. I use to just observe my sps for health and test much less frequently until my tank crashed. Well the fuller story is that when I moved from a "tall" 40 (could have been 20) gallon show tank to a real reef tank (the current 180 gallon bow front), it was all easy. In this tank, the sps just took off and I got both lazy and adventurous with my reefing approach after a year of two of incredible growth and success. The problem with simply relying on observation alone is that you can't observe alk, nitrates or any chemistry without testing. I got a couple of tank of the month honors and then my sps just crashed. I did not respond to the downward spiral in a very rationale approach and so let the tank go fallow for about 6 months until I inspired myself to once again test routinely and now I am two years plus into the reboot. Plus l periodically cull my sps. If something just hasn't blossomed into what i really like or want then out it goes, so I get bald spots. And I give most frags about a year before I cull too see if they will blossom with enough time. Not that one year is a special marker, its just kind of my rule of thumb. Anyway, a full tank shot just wouldn't be all that cool quite yet.

I use a calcium reactor, I change 20% every two weeks now, a refugium with a Kessil H350 light which is a lot of light, I don't dose carbon, since i added siporax I now need to supplement nitrates so my phosphates stay manageable without gfo, no additives, I feed my fish all kinds of different dry foods on a rotating schedule with occasional frozen LRS treat. I have about 15 plus fish or so, couple clowns, 6 tangs, 6 plus wrasses, mandarin. Protein skimmer. I am the basic reefer with basic habits. I test alk and nitrates once or preferably twice a week.

It's funny.. it's taken me a good two years of experimenting and playing with so many different products and I have recently come up with my current crazy regimen for making my corals happy and colorful.
I am happy with my color but only reasonably happy with growth and general health...
Mark, your system always, ALWAYS makes me question whether I should try to ween my tank off of everything...
Hm..

Like I said previously, I want to understand the science behind additives like why zinc or manganese or any other element or product . On the one hand, I just don't see the rationale and on the other hand, I wonder what I don't know about it. There are many smart guys into reefing who kindly share their knowledge and unfortunately a number of people who are not so smart but share as well. The information can get confusing.

It is December already, so new month means I get to take new pictures. This is through the front glass and it is with t5's and reefbrites. I always feel apologetic about reefbrite pictures because they show off so many colors. But it seems that there are so few people using metal halides anymore that it is harder to share those pictures and feel confident that people really understand what that lighting is all about.

Z's Pink Cotton Candy

 

[Ucantwin]

Why do you test nitrate so often? The issue you ran into was it from high or low nitrate? I find my nitrates when I test are .2 and my sps are deeply colored and not pale at all. I have 180 gallon tank with probably 25-30 fish and feed roughly 7-8 cubes of frozen a day and pellets two other times on a feeder. I also started dosing aquavitro fuel about a month ago and have noticed increased growth but also notice my glass needs cleaned almost daily now. Since I like the growth I keep doing it. I find the trend of dosing unnessary unless your carbon dosing to drive them ultra low. My chaeto keeps nitrates very low.

Your corals always look amazing. When you look at someone else's photos who has the same corals you do, do you find your colors better? If so, I wouldn't worry about dosing anything.

 

[watchguy123]

I test nitrates weekly or more as just part of my routine with alkalinity testing. I think the two most critical factors for guesstimating stable tank chemistry are alkalinity and nitrates.

I use a calcium reactor so I presume that my alkalinity and calcium and even magnesium (I have magnesium in the reactor as well) are balanced. So I target the alkalinity and again presume the calcium and magnesium are in line with the alkalinity.

The other part of reef chemistry that I am focused on is nutrient control. And since I am supplementing nitrates via KNO3 powder, I want to make sure that it is stable and neither decreasing nor increasing.

I log my results and quite frankly things remain relatively stable but there may be some fluctuations and I want to be aware of trends. Sometimes my alkalinity will trend lower and whether that is a result of more growth or some fluctuation with the calcium reactor itself, I am not a 100% sure but I will tweak the reactor to compensate. And although I have been adding the exact same amount of KNO3 powder for many months, when I am away from the tank, it generally gets overfed and the nitrates will jump. I usually respond with less feeding for a while but the point is I can easily modify my feeding routine to compensate.

Perhaps it is unnecessary but I think it is a far greater mistake to under evaluate tank chemistry than to test more frequently. I very well may be paranoid about my concerns but I definitely don’t want to witness another tank crash, ever.

One of the things I value on the forum are the various threads with lots of full sps colonies. It shows a commitment to constant vigilance over a period of years. One has to be either very lucky or very diligent to end up with full colonies, and I would guess diligence with good fortune is the winning combination.

I should add that although I am frequently testing, I’m not constantly adjusting anything. I try to simply observe trends.

 

[reefmutt]

Z's Pink Cotton Candy
[/QUOTE]

Mark, you win the internet today with this shot!
Absolutely amazing growth tip contrast.
A stunning, stunning coral!

 

[Oldude]

WOW! Absolutely incredible. You have some of the nicest sps I have ever seen and great photography as well. :thumbsup::thumbsup:
You are in a whole different class than the "run of the mill reefers" like myself.

 

[tripdad]

Not only did you nail the tip color, hard to do, but you even captured the yellow ring around the tip polyp in a few spots! I can never do that, very cool! Matt is right on, you win!

 

[Rakie]

Your pictures really make me want to invest into something like a Porthole. But without a true DSLR i've only got the little point and shoot lens, which doesn't give much for a porthole to grip onto.

And again -- You seem to be an expert at spotting corals with yellow, which a lot of us find to be the most elusive color! Keep up the stellar photography.

 

[dbsandbox]

Your tank is what we all hope our tank will look like,so beautiful.The photos you take are fantastic,thank you for sharing them with all of us.

 

[Oldude]

Any chance of seeing a current FTS?

 

[dbsandbox]

Mark love your Blueberry wine I have a small frag myself and was wondering about its growth pattern i would like to grow it out to a large colony. What type of height and width is your colony , should i place it in a very high light or moderat light.Thank you for any insights you may be able to pass along.

 

[watchguy123]

Your pictures really make me want to invest into something like a Porthole. But without a true DSLR i've only got the little point and shoot lens, which doesn't give much for a porthole to grip onto.

And again -- You seem to be an expert at spotting corals with yellow, which a lot of us find to be the most elusive color! Keep up the stellar photography.

Some sort of porthole is so helpful with photography. I have both an avast and a building an obsession version and both are wonderful. I somehow managed to drop some superglue gel (bsi ic-gel) on the avast one so if you see some cloudy areas in a photo then you'll know which I was using that time

Your tank is what we all hope our tank will look like,so beautiful.The photos you take are fantastic,thank you for sharing them with all of us.

Excited cause I just got a new camera and macro lens!

Any chance of seeing a current FTS?

I don't think I'll be ready for a fts for a good while unfortunately

Mark love your Blueberry wine I have a small frag myself and was wondering about its growth pattern i would like to grow it out to a large colony. What type of height and width is your colony , should i place it in a very high light or moderat light.Thank you for any insights you may be able to pass along.

The blueberry wine is awesome. It is such a great shade of blue but I'm afraid that I never really capture its beauty. Mine gets both good flow and light. I think it is about 3-4 inches tall and about 5-6 inches across. I'm not likely to get any pictures for the next couple weeks but I will try to get a full colony one for you as soon as I can.

And I took some pictures this last week so I have some to share now.


I got three different frags from a friend of mine a while back. It seems they may be the last surviving frags of this colony grouping. They all appear to be color morphs of each other to me. But I should say I'm terrible with species identification so for all I know they may not be related at all. Atleast I'm sure they are not tenuis, yet they have spectacular coloring.

I'm calling this one Z's Frustration

Z's Frustration (reefbrites only)



Z's Frustration (250 watt radium metal halides, ati t5's, reefbrites)




Not nearly as dramatic under metal halides but I have still more to show under the various lighting schemes


I have had Reef Raft Canada Ultimate Orange Passion for I think two years perhaps. I rarely see anyone share a picture of it. It has been growing and coloring fine but has recently been undergoing a change in color in my tank lately. It's a slow grower as well.

Reef Raft Canada Ultimate Orange Passion (reefbrites only)




Reef Raft Canada Ultimate Orange Passion ( metal halide, t5's and reefbrite)



It looks pretty amazing regardless of lighting. Polyps seem to be more pink at tips and more orange near the base. I think it is a stunner. I have it high but near the back of my tank so it's awkward to get photos of it. It used to look much more beige under metal halides so I'm pretty excited about this improvement. I will share more pictures but I have a big travel day tomorrow

 

[watchguy123]

More pictures and comparisons of different lighting

Another frag unnamed

Under reefbrites



Under metal halides, t5's and reefbrites



Reef Raft Canada Shazam (reefbrites only)



Reef Raft Canada Shazam (metal halide, t5's and reefbrites)




It's easy to appreciate the vividness of the reefbrites. However if you just look at the metal halide pictures, they are stunning as well. Very different and perhaps not as vibrant but nonetheless beautiful

 

[dbsandbox]

Thanks when mine is ready to come out qt. i will give it that kind of space.

 

[watchguy123]

Reef Raft CJ Pinky (reefbrites)



Reef Raft CJ Pinky (mh,t5’s and reefbrites)

 

[watchguy123]

Z's Prize (reefbrites)



Z's Prize (mh, t5's and reefbrites)



The colors under reefbrites are crazy and perhaps some of the most vibrant colors that I've ever seen. Without doubt, the metal halides demonstrate much more subdued coloring but I suggest quite beautiful nonetheless. T5's lie somewhere in between the two.

 

[watchguy123]

Blurry picture of my walt disney frag:reefbrites





Z's Blue Floyd (reefbrites)


Z's Prize (reefbrites)



Z's Pink Cotton Candy (reefbrites)