To Cone or Not to Cone?

A

A sea K

New member
I've been pretty much absent for almost a year now and since getting reaquainted I have seen a lot of new skimmers available.

I'm in the market to upgrade my skimmer and have been interested in one of the new cones. They are definately a slightly higher price point than a comparable cylinder type skimmer and I was wondering how they stack up from a performance standpoint.
What are the thoughts from those of you that have made the switch?
 
Well there are many factors that make a cone more desirable. Typically you will get better SCFH ratings than you would of a normal cylinder skimmer. I went form an ASM GX1 to a MSX mini-S. I was impressed with my ASM but the mini-s blows the ASM out of the water. Now depending on your tank size.The're skimmers out there that perform just as well as or better than the cone skimmers. Take for instance the MSX 250 with a askol pump pulls alot more air than my mini-S. But a 250a would be overkill on my 72 gallon bow. I just went ahead and got the mini-S for one because it was a good price. It pulls more air then most cylinder skimmers. And it looks really sweet. I think the major reason why people are going to cones is not necessarily the performance but for the looks. It's your decision and budget.
If you are set on a I would look at
Octopus cone
MSX mini-S skimmers or Max larger cone skimmers based on your tank size
ATB cones
Vertex alpha cones
And the I-tech skimmers.
 
I'm trying to get more of an apples to apples comparison. I can see why the mini cone would blow away the ASM. That poor little asm is no where near the skimmer the mini-s is.
Now if you take the MSX 250A and put it head to head with the MSX1A (nonrecirc). I feel these two are closely matched both pump and body size. Now I just need to find out which is the better configuration between the two different body styles.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15753027#post15753027 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by A sea K
I'm trying to get more of an apples to apples comparison. I can see why the mini cone would blow away the ASM. That poor little asm is no where near the skimmer the mini-s is.
Now if you take the MSX 250A and put it head to head with the MSX1A (nonrecirc). I feel these two are closely matched both pump and body size. Now I just need to find out which is the better configuration between the two different body styles.
Click to expand...

I just went through the same thought process and I think the pump is the biggest factor in a good skimmer.
I went with the swc 250a skimmer and it rocks I can't imagine that if the body was a cone that i would get that much more skimate.
just my .02
 
yeah it depends on what size tank you have. What size are you looking at? Cause a 250a is for larger systems like 200+
 
Ask in one of the MSX skimmer threads.
The Askoll equipped cone is an excellent performer. I used the dual sicce cone for a while but modified it with an askoll pump.
The lack of turbulence was impressive.
You may be able to find users who have actually owned both the 250 and the cone with askoll pumps or modified with askolls to get the comparison you want. Personally, I think the cone body shape does offers some advantages but that doesnt make any cone skimmer automatically better than any cylindrical skimmer.

I now use an Alpha 200. The Alpha 250 would be a more comparable skimmer to the MSX askoll cone in terms of size and capacity. My display is 90 gallons so both are oversized for my system. Regardless, both perform exceedingly well. However, The build quality and attention to detail arent comparable and the Alpha is dead silent due to overall design. The askoll pump itself is silent with both skimmers.
 
wondering how they stack up from a performance standpoint.
Click to expand...
They are the same as any normal skimmer design.

Its all marketing hype that they are better. put a the same pump from a cone skimmer on to a normal good designed standard skimmer and the performance will be the same.
 
is this a guess? what do you base this on?




<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15754525#post15754525 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by recife111
They are the same as any normal skimmer design.

Its all marketing hype that they are better. put a the same pump from a cone skimmer on to a normal good designed standard skimmer and the performance will be the same.
Click to expand...
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15754525#post15754525 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by recife111
They are the same as any normal skimmer design.

Its all marketing hype that they are better.
Click to expand...

Ahh.. haven't heard that one before:rolleyes: .

Ive owned many different skimmers, and the cone has been the best so far. Its not some night and day difference, but it is definitely an improvement.

I have owned 2 different H&S, 2 EuroReefs, an ASM, both Reeflo Orca 200 and 250, and a handful of lesser known ones. I currently use an ATB 840. The cone design has had the least turbulence and most consistent bubble size and rise of any of them.

Would I be correct in guessing you have not owned a cone? Must be why you can give such a clear cut opinion as you did above.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15754199#post15754199 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tufacody
darG, u switched from a 250a to an Alpha?? I'd like to hear more about that decision
Click to expand...

It was actually the dual sicce version that I had put an askoll on.
There isnt much to the decision. A friend wanted my MSX so I sold it and bought the Alpha 200 based on overall design, askoll motor, silent operation and top notch build quality and attention to detail. It was essentially an opportunity to own a "luxury" skimmer. Performance has been excellent as expected but the MSX was an excellent performer as well.
 
I have the SnoCone from Eshopps which is an excelent skimmer for its size, and easily handled my 120.

I know have the Alpha 250 which is a great skimmer, but has taken some real tinkering to get right.

Before this I had the Octopus PRO 300 with the Askoll, it was beast although the body was undersized.

Of all of these skimmers the Alpha is the best, the Octo PRO a CLOSE CLOSE CLOSE 2nd, and then the Eshopps Cone(obviously due to the pump)(But a great little skimmer that benefits greatly from the cone design)

These are my experiences from my last 3 skimmers.
 
Most of what is said here is true. The cones because of their smaller shape up top have less head pressure on the pump allowing for the pump to produce more air and water throughput.
There is more to reducing turbulence than just a cone shape. I have seen some that dont work any better than the average cylinder. It really does start with the pump and a balance of sizes. Neck to pump to body size all need to be in a ratio to each other. For example a skimmer with a 6 inch body and 4 inch neck max air draw would be around 900 lph. Where a 8 inch body skimmer with a 5 inch neck would be around 1500lph +

If the body is too small and the neck is the right size you will just get a more turbulent skimmer and it looses its efficiency in skimming. But if the neck is too bog you have to run the water level really high up in the neck putting greater head pressure on the pump and you loose performance as well. If the neck is too small you have to run it really shallow and it makes it hard to adjust as well.

Their are many factors that go into making a great skimmer. I have even made my own now, Check it out in the DIY forum page. ITs not that easy. MY favorite out of the box plug and play skimmer is the ATB 840 1.5 . No doubt about it. Now their are some others that I like thatare a pretty close second. The bk mini's are nice and the SWC with the askoll pump does skim well. Just to big for me.
The k2 cone does a great job as well and is pretty well balanced. I just wish he took it one step further and made a custom volute like ATB did to fix the rotation volute on a stock sicce.

If you are on a budget now is a great time to get a really nice cylinder skimmer. They will do you just fine. If you are set on a cone well The ATB is my #1 choice. I actually have a cone skimmer sitting in the fish room I am going to do a review on. Just busy bulding my own. I hoe this helps. I look at more than just performance. I look at customer service as well. This is important as if by the chance something does happen. How long does it take to get you going again. So when I buy a skimmer I would look at Premium aquatics, Reef specialty, and Aquarium specialty. They are all top notch. I cant lie Premium is only 2 hours from my house so I get next day service at ground prices. But Jeremy is always awesome to deal with. All are great really. Now as far as ATB. I know many can just call Victor direct. Its just faster. And well why not. He is great to talk to and has a awesome product.

Well good luck
Mojo~
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15753027#post15753027 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by A sea K
I'm trying to get more of an apples to apples comparison. I can see why the mini cone would blow away the ASM. That poor little asm is no where near the skimmer the mini-s is.
Click to expand...

Apples to apples is going to be hard. Just my .02. I bought a K2 recently. Honestly the "cone" itself is not worth breaking the bank over. Yet the K2 is a very nice skimmer. Very low turbulence.

I hear a lot of complaints about cone prices.... but a ATB 840 is not a Octo Ext 200. Cones are coming out from premium builders, using premium materials, and using premium pumps.

So it isn't that the "cone" is expensive, (which does cost more than a cylinder) it is the premium build.

Octo is coming out with their cone skimmer about now priced at $400. So prices are coming down and a head to head can be done with a 200.
 
The cone technology at this time makes a more productive skimmer. How much more productive is a cone to a cylinder if we compared an equal rated sized skimmer of top quality, maybe ~10 percent. What your cost is for an about 10% increase in performance is about 30% to 50% more then a cylinder. I understand it took more money to set up a cast to make/create an acrylic cone. I wish the manufacturers would decide to reduce pricing. Maybe they will realize they will make more money on them in the long run by selling more of them. If you think about it, a cone has less mass then a cylinder and costs more (there is less acrylic used). I think people have a hard time paying so much more for the technology when average cylinder skimmers are selling like hotcakes for almost the price of the acrylic. If you have not figured it out by now I am beating a drum for cheaper priced Cone skimmers and I am hoping the manufacturers are listening. =)
 
Well the cones are more expensive to make. The body takes more time to make than a cylinder skimmer body. More an hours ect. Try to make your own skimmer. No matter what the shape, MAke it like the one you really like and see what it cost you.
 
really only a 10 percent difference ? hmmmm..... i've been so tempeted to jump on the bandwagon and change my ATI bubble master 200 for the swc mini cone, i was really hoping for alot better, are you pretty sure thats the performance increase on the average
 
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