Today's Rant on Quarantining

[FirstContact]

Seems like the industry wants to make every personal hobbyist responsible for the condition of the corals and the fish before they go into their personal tanks. I have been in this hobby for eight years and have never quarantined and all I have gotten is a lot of aiptaisia. Where as someone in the hobby for eight years has accumulated a lot of stuff and might consider going the quarantine route in the future aka really soon, are we really telling new hobbyists: "By the way with that tank purchase you need to purchase another two tanks - one for corals/invertebrates, and one for fish - so you yourself can make sure your purchases are safe from contamination before you enjoy them in the first tank you purchased. Realizing that the hobby makes strides, and improvements are made all the time with knowledge to share for all, still find this frustrating. Wouldn't purchase any other pet like this. Example: Would you purchase a dog or cat from someone if they weren't healthy and had all their shots. Appreciating the knowledge, technique, and possibly use the techniques if we "share" stuff (aka free from a friend);but, there's a big difference if we go to shops and actually purchase stuff. Another way to look at this is that the industry is passing on the cost of "healthy" specimens to the customer instead of guaranteeing that the specimens are healthy to begin with. Where are the mandatory protocols in the industry for safeguarding life and selling pest free specimens?

 

[billsreef]

How much would you pay for a dog or cat with all its shots and guaranteed health? Would you be willing to pay the same? Few people would.

BTW there are no mandatory protocols in the trade. Also after over 30 years in the fish business (LFS and research labs) I wouldn't trust any other than my own QT, and a small handful of others that I know well enough to trust they did it right.

 

[FirstContact]

Good advice, but I would be willing to pay more for mandatory protocols, and I still look at it as transferring the cost of business to the customer.

 

[gone fishin]

I encourage new folks to look into QT but ultimately the choice is theirs. The rest of the rant does not make much sense to me.

 

[Brieninsac]

This is definitely a concern for me. I just spent $3,600 on a new system and the thought of creating a quarantine tank is not a pleasant one.

 

[billsreef]

Good advice, but I would be willing to pay more for mandatory protocols, and I still look at it as transferring the cost of business to the customer. The customer is always going to ultimately pay the price of the cost of business. Otherwise the business losses money and goes out of business.

Your going to pay one way or another. Either do it yourself, or pay even more for the LFS to do it for you.

 

[billsreef]

This is definitely a concern for me. I just spent $3,600 on a new system and the thought of creating a quarantine tank is not a pleasant one.

And your going to quibble over spending another $20 (yes, this can be done for small scale) to $100 (high end) to protect that $3600 investment?

 

[Windy2]

Good advice, but I would be willing to pay more for mandatory protocols, and I still look at it as transferring the cost of business to the customer.

Every business transfers the cost of business to the customer. It called pricing.
Is a cook-your-own pizza transferring the cost of cooking to the customer. What business experience do you have?

 

[mr9iron]

This is definitely a concern for me. I just spent $3,600 on a new system and the thought of creating a quarantine tank is not a pleasant one.

It's not a pleasant idea, but unfortunately it is a necessary evil. I remember in my early days in the hobby everything was thrown in the tank without thought. This led to so much frustration with ICH, other diseases, and pests which have wiped out my critters. However, since I have gained more experience I see the value in QT.

It is extra work, and takes quite a bit of time and effort, but truly is the right thing to do to protect your investment. Nothing is a frustrating as watching your animals wither away. I would suggest setting up separate QT tanks for corals, and fish. The extra effort will help minimize future heart aches.

 

[MondoBongo]

This is definitely a concern for me. I just spent $3,600 on a new system and the thought of creating a quarantine tank is not a pleasant one.

QT is cheap. tearing down a DT to catch and medicate all the fish in it is a pain and potentially expensive.

i'm doing tank transfer right now on a new addition. total cost of two sets of equipment to do this is negligible. i was able to put the whole shebang together for under $100. that's barely more than the fish itself cost, and all components can be reused.

i also purchased a $1200 generator that i am hoping just sits and takes up space. hopefully i will never have to run it, but since i have FAR more than $1200 in to my tanks at this point, we're talking about some cheap insurance for the lives and health of my pets.

quarantine on an industrial scale is just not feasible. managing an effective protocol for dozens, nevermind hundreds, or thousands of animals, is just not possible for a high throughput distributor or b2c store model.

 

[Dking271]

There are many reasons that I quarantine new fish that have nothing to do with health. The cost of a quarantine setup is less than the cost of one fish. As someone who has infected a DT by not quarantining a fish properly, I can assure you it will never happen again. I purchase many of my fish from DD, which have already been quarantined and treated for parasites. I still choose to quarantine them. It allows me a chance to get them feeding and very comfortable with me approaching the tank. The precautions that I take are as much for the proper husbandry of the fish as it is to protect my investment.

It's up to you to decide how you want to pursue this hobby.

 

[Brieninsac]

Can I get some guidelines on setting up a quarantine tank. What's the min size I can get, bearing in mind I won't introduce more than 2 small fish at a time or one medium. I assume a pump, heater, reef rock and hang on skimmer. How long do you quarantine fish and corals and what are you looking for during that time? I'll do a little searching too. Thanks.

 

[Sk8r]

A pump, old CD bucket, pillow floss, spoonful of carbon, cheap paperweight (stack in CD bucket to create a daily-changed pot filter. Jump screen (piece of eggcrate grid) heater, bare glass 20 g tank and a PVC elbow for fish to hide in. That's it. An ATO if you go spiff, or a taped line on the tank for daily topoff.
QT fish, dip corals, observe softies for a few days after dip to catch egg hatches that might survive.

 

[FirstContact]

quarantine on an industrial scale is just not feasible. managing an effective protocol for dozens, nevermind hundreds, or thousands of animals, is just not possible for a high throughput distributor or b2c store model.

Definitely a better answer. Per another entry on this post, some businesses do QT before reselling.

 

[MondoBongo]

Definitely a better answer. Per another entry on this post, some businesses do QT before reselling.

which businesses are they? i'm not aware of any that actually do a robust QT protocol, or any QT protocol that i would feel comfortable trusting.

Diver's Den "Quarantines" their fish, but not in a way that would be particularly effective for identifying or eradicating diseases and/or parasites, and even they advocate the hobbyist taking additional QT steps.

i would be very interested in how they're QTing their arrivals. thinking about some of the LFS in my area, the overhead would be crippling for them while still trying to turn a profit on already slim margins.

i was talking with the owner of a newer fish store local to me as i was purchasing a copper band butterfly, i mentioned that he would be going directly in to my QT protocol when i got home, and the owners response was telling: "i'm glad you QT, a lot of people don't. unfortunately it's just not reasonable or cost effective for me to QT everything that comes through my door."

i could see stores doing this with high end fish. your collector items like rare angels or gem tangs, things that have a substantial price tag attached to them and they can afford to have sitting in the back for weeks prior to sale, but i just don't know that i could see a way to make sure every clown fish that came through was run through a rigorous protocol.

then it also begs the question, what kind of garuntee would a vendor supplied QT carry? assuming they offer QT as a service (QaaS?), you purchase a fish from them that has been QT'd, place it in your tank. the fish in your tank come down with an illness. who's to say the illness came from that fish? now you have an unhappy customer, likely ranting on the internet about being ripped off, and your protocol and pricing is being called in question, irrespective of the fact that the hobbyist could well have introduced the pathogen through another vector.

 

[Deinonych]

how much would you pay for a dog or cat with all its shots and guaranteed health? Would you be willing to pay the same? Few people would.

Btw there are no mandatory protocols in the trade. Also after over 30 years in the fish business (lfs and research labs) i wouldn't trust any other than my own qt, and a small handful of others that i know well enough to trust they did it right.

+1

 

[Fish Keeper82]

Most people in the hobby quit after about two years . Why is this? Do most people just all of the sudden dislike reef tanks?
I'd guess that's not the case and the constant battle of keeping a reef system healthy without quarantine protocals is what make this hobby so frustrating for people. Constant fish dying soon after being introduced or shortly afterward becomes discouraging when some of these species life spans are 30 years.

I like many was one not one to QT and was lucky for a long time. But now that i do QT all my fish are healthy and thriving / seemingly happy. I've been fortunate since i started to QT I've been able to keep some unhealthy fish out of my system.
i know nothing is 100 percent effective but my reef sure is more stable and healthier now.
I do not expect any new reefer to QT it just seems like added cost and effort.... but we all learn the hard way.
i would also not pay some LFS to QT. Most are out to make a quick buck and I'd fear I'd purchase unhealthy unquarentiened fish at an even more expensive price.

 

[snorvich]

The cost of quarantine is small, and non-reoccurring, compared to the cost of the embedded base of most people's fish population. While ich can be a problem, it is a relatively small problem compared to the other parasites that can wipe out a tank. There is NO seller of fish that adequately quarantines what they sell.

 

[m0nkie]

in LA we have a store that QT their fish for 30 days before selling. Owned by a hobbiest. you rarely see him sell any fish due to that reason. There's about 5-10 fish he sell at a time. Not enough space. His backroom is filled with QT. It's kind of sad to see his shop going down hill. I want to support the store, but best I can buy from them is fish food and dosing materials..

there's another store nearby, you can visibly see ich from time to time.. but they have hundreds of new fish on Sundays.

 

[snorvich]

in LA we have a store that QT their fish for 30 days before selling. Owned by a hobbiest. you rarely see him sell any fish due to that reason. There's about 5-10 fish he sell at a time. Not enough space. His backroom is filled with QT. It's kind of sad to see his shop going down hill. I want to support the store, but best I can buy from them is fish food and dosing materials..

there's another store nearby, you can visibly see ich from time to time.. but they have hundreds of new fish on Sundays.

Sorry, but simply quarantining fish for 30 days is not adequate. The minimum process would be tank transfer, two rounds of prazipro, and a minimum of 5 weeks of overall contact time.