Top down shots

[Bratyboy2]

6 will work fine but I'd probably go with 8 on a tank like that. It gives you a bit more flexibility in where to mount corals as well as setting up the layout.

8 will give a brighter look and less shadows as well as light hitting the corals from more angles. This proves more important also if you wanted to do a peninsula type setup versus one side being against the wall.

What I'm mainly getting at is 8 will provide a better visual presentation.

Thats what i thought as well...and you think this will be enough to allow sps near the lower half?

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

 

[AD87]

Pam told me she tried dosing it in her tank and it didn't work. She said at first she got some good polyp extension, but long term it didn't have any affect, just like all those over hyped commercial amino products.

Besides like I said, I don't dose any additives to my tank.

Btw, how's your Red Planet and Shortcake doing?

Pam

 

[Big E]

Thats what i thought as well...and you think this will be enough to allow sps near the lower half?

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

Yes, no problem at all............you need to use a quality fixture like the Sunpower or similar. You can't use a cheap fixture off ebay. Buy something that has a long term successful track record and is represented well in the forums here for Sps.

 

[Bratyboy2]

Why do you say that? Because of the reflectors?

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[Big E]

Why do you say that? Because of the reflectors?

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Some of the very cheap units don't have individual reflectors,good ballasts, or cooling systems. They won't produce the kind of par and spectrum you need or maximize bulb life.

If you want to save some $ you can do the LET diy kits which use the ati ballasts and also have the individual reflectors.

 

[sensei]

Jorge,

I seldom test like that..........again, I don't focus on the actual numbers and force the system to some mythical perfect PO4 level. In my experiences it makes no sense to micro manage that.

The actual readouts are inconsequential as a few hundredths difference doesn't matter to me, especially due to the fact I use the 713 hannah. With it's +/- at .04 it's not worth the trouble.

Again, it's the pest algae and cyano I want to curb against, so I watch out for that more than test numbers. When they are struggling it's much easier for the coral bases and coraline algae to cover the rocks and give that algae nowhere to proliferate.

Like I mentioned, a lot of it is in observation..........you know immediately when a coral is off or film algae starts to show up faster.

I'm not saying I don't put stock in the actual numbers, but I think the balance of the P04 and N03 is more important than the actual numbers of P04 at .02 versus .06 for example.

Understood professor,
I have been observing my tank and I can not overcome a cyano problem, I started using GFO but only a small dose.
you dose 125g for 90 g which is 1.38g / g, I started with 200g for 600g which is 0.33g / g , my PO4 tested less in test kits but no effect on cyano after 3 weeks.
I tested the water coming out of the reactor after almost 3 weeks and GFO was exahusted so my plan is to change GFO every 2 weeks and increase 50 g of GFO if after 2 weeks if I do not see an improvement in cyano.

I now have 250g of GFO in the reactor and if after 2 weeks there is no improvement I will increase it to 300g.

does this plan make sense to you?
I only doubt of 2weeks if enough for the system to balance out and see the effect on cyano?


2nd question. you mention earlier in this thread that you basted rocks for 15min every night.
My tank is big 10 feet long by 30" deep, and my rock work is low, thus it is not feasable to baste rocks manually. I used a powerhead with a tube to blow rocks yesterday. it took me 15min aprox. I look of detrietus with cyano came out of rocks I placed filter socks for 1 hour to collect most that detrietus.

Is blowing the rocks with powerhead equivalent to basting the rocks?
I ask because I lot came out ( you could see like a sand storm of detrietus inside tank) , and I do not know if it is apropriate to do this a couple of times in consecutive days or if it is to much disturvance for the tank?


Thanks a lot

 

[Wiskey]

Subscribed!

I love your tank BigE! You have great photography skills, and even nicer corals. I really enjoy seeing your PAR recommendations because I have about 220 at the sandbed, and 400 at the top (75G with 4x54W tek T5 retro and some led sups) and seeing other people's par numbers I was starting to feel inadequate.

I'll enjoy keeping up with the journey! I'm looking forward to the next batch of pictures.

Whiskey

 

[Big E]

sensei---

2nd question. you mention earlier in this thread that you basted rocks for 15min every night.
My tank is big 10 feet long by 30" deep, and my rock work is low, thus it is not feasable to baste rocks manually. I used a powerhead with a tube to blow rocks yesterday. it took me 15min aprox. I look of detrietus with cyano came out of rocks I placed filter socks for 1 hour to collect most that detrietus.

Is blowing the rocks with powerhead equivalent to basting the rocks?
I ask because I lot came out ( you could see like a sand storm of detrietus inside tank) , and I do not know if it is apropriate to do this a couple of times in consecutive days or if it is to much disturvance for the tank?

Jorge,

Using a powerhead is fine & your procedure looks good as well. I only baste nightly when I'm trying to reduce or eliminate detritus build up that is helping fuel the cyano. I only do it once a week before water changes during normal maintenance.

The rocks should be clean for the most part except for a pocket or two. You should not be having detritus storms basting day to day.

You want as much coraline as possible to coat the rocks as well. This give algae less places to grow as they can grab particles of detritus and the cyano will use that as fuel and grow on top of the algae.

Make sure you have plenty of snails as they can scrub the rocks clean from where the tangs left off.

This all becomes less of an issue when the corals get big and they encrust all that open rock space............also,the larger growing colonies will take in and compete for those nutrients much better than a bunch of small frags or mini colonies.
----------------------------------------------

On the GFO, I believe we covered that per email earlier.

 

[Big E]

Subscribed!

I love your tank BigE! You have great photography skills, and even nicer corals. I really enjoy seeing your PAR recommendations because I have about 220 at the sandbed, and 400 at the top (75G with 4x54W tek T5 retro and some led sups) and seeing other people's par numbers I was starting to feel inadequate.

I'll enjoy keeping up with the journey! I'm looking forward to the next batch of pictures.

Whiskey

Hi Whiskey,

Thank you

Your par levels look fine to me for most corals. In the end, the corals growth/color will tell you whether they thrive where you have them placed.

This pic is of a big base that spawned off my Vivids colony. It's encrusting on the tank floor, not getting more than 150 par at best and it's also near the front of the tank not getting a lot of direct light. It many be benefiting from some reflections from the front pane, but even so look how colorful those new sprouts are and they're growing fast too.

Vivids floor shot R by Big E 52, on Flickr

 

[PatrikD]

Very cool growth! Would be nice with an overview of that coral and other. Doesn't matter if tank is scaped or not

Your corals excel in the red spectrum. Is that due to coral+ or would the corals produce the same pigments if you only used blue+ do you think?

 

[sensei]

sensei---

Jorge,

Using a powerhead is fine & your procedure looks good as well. I only baste nightly when I'm trying to reduce or eliminate detritus build up that is helping fuel the cyano. I only do it once a week before water changes during normal maintenance.

The rocks should be clean for the most part except for a pocket or two. You should not be having detritus storms basting day to day.

You want as much coraline as possible to coat the rocks as well. This give algae less places to grow as they can grab particles of detritus and the cyano will use that as fuel and grow on top of the algae.

Make sure you have plenty of snails as they can scrub the rocks clean from where the tangs left off.

This all becomes less of an issue when the corals get big and they encrust all that open rock space............also,the larger growing colonies will take in and compete for those nutrients much better than a bunch of small frags or mini colonies.
----------------------------------------------

On the GFO, I believe we covered that per email earlier.

understood professor,
you have made a lot of emphasis in observation and how corals should tell you what is happening and what to do.

I am not sure what signs to look for beside bleaching and loss of color?
and how to know the solution?
do you have photos of a coral browning?

can you explain a little more on what to look for and possible causes?

2.- are you using a micro lens for your photos? have you adjusted for a faster shutter speed? superb photos!

thanks again

 

[Wiskey]

Hi Whiskey,

Thank you

Your par levels look fine to me for most corals. In the end, the corals growth/color will tell you whether they thrive where you have them placed.

This pic is of a big base that spawned off my Vivids colony. It's encrusting on the tank floor, not getting more than 150 par at best and it's also near the front of the tank not getting a lot of direct light. It many be benefiting from some reflections from the front pane, but even so look how colorful those new sprouts are and they're growing fast too.

That is beautiful! I just rechecked my PAR today and it's actually 400 mid tank (top of my rock).

I'm actually thinking about removing the LED's, I feel like they make my coral too light, I don't like the spectrum, plus they only seem to add about 20 PAR anyway, but they do even out the light because they sit between rows of T5 and create more even coverage in my 18" wide tank.

I know that your tank is also 18" wide, have you ever felt the need to have 6 T5 bulbs for even coverage?

Whiskey

 

[sensei]

Ed,
I have seen a lot of sps tanks very packed with acros.
how do can you have so many packed together with out one killing the other one?

with the growth you have in your last picture were the acro is covering the bottom of the tank what will you do when growth is about to touch another acro?

 

[markalot]

I love this photo, growing acros outside of their original placement can be so telling at times. My pink acro and a smaller frag started to bleach badly, one in less than 150 PAR. A water quality issue IMO, and something I might not have guessed if I didn't have a frag.

But anyway, I like the encrusting acro pics. That acro is damn happy.

 

[Big E]

Very cool growth! Would be nice with an overview of that coral and other. Doesn't matter if tank is scaped or not

Your corals excel in the red spectrum. Is that due to coral+ or would the corals produce the same pigments if you only used blue+ do you think?

From my experience the Coral+ helps with better reds in corals. It helps to promote the emitted colors from the coral itself as well as it's reflected light.
This is eventually what our eyes see"¦"¦.a combination of those two.

That's just one component from the lighting perspective. The other is the correct intensity, so placement is important"¦"¦"¦.this goes with any color, not just red. Sometimes you have to experiment at different heights to find the sweet spot.
Since I use a 50-50 combo with the blue+ it's horizontal placement is consistent no matter where I place the coral. The extra blue that the blue+ offers also helps to give that extra pop.

Overall, I've seen the best colors produced by T5 setups with ATI bulbs in pictures or in person. I'm also hesitant to give up my over driven setup.
I'm not sure it's a factor and still have to experiment more, but there is no argument that the bulbs burn brighter and slightly more white than under traditional T5 ballasts.

I don't promote the over driven setup because I've seen enough setups produce great colors under Sunpowers and other dominant T5 brands.

The next factor is the nutrient level, more specifically NO3"¦"¦"¦.if the nitrates are low you won't get vivid deep colors"¦"¦"¦.you'll get the more pastel look and the colors won't pop the same. A lot of the reds will look more light pink.

I don't focus on P04 as much, other than it's ratio to N03 and also how much pest algae and cyano show up . It doesn't affect color that much but it can affect growth. All my corals start to stall above .30 and it also creates a reverse level of P04 higher than N03 which has never worked for me long term. Below about .12 has worked better for me"¦"¦"¦.so my ballpark range is .02-.12

I like 100x ratio between the two and I have been tracking a lot of tanks that are having success in that ratio area. This seems to promotes the best growth as well and thriving growth= good color.

Lastly it's the coral itself"¦"¦"¦..for lack of a better term it's DNA. The dusky red type acros I get rid of. I only keep ones that can show off the richer brighter colors.

I've gone through a few shortcakes to find one I really like with intense red tips, same with millis and red tables.

One point about the blue spectrum specifically.......... more 450nm blue will promote more in the green, orange, and yellows in a lot of corals, but excessive amounts can also mute reds and pinks, again from what we see as well as what excites the pigments.

I covered this earlier in my thread about how the cones in our eyes view colors as the tank gets brighter or darker. It's why I try to keep a bright tank that is less blue than most.

A nice tint of blue looks good but too much and it becomes a point of diminishing returns.

 

[Big E]

Ed,
I have seen a lot of sps tanks very packed with acros.
how do can you have so many packed together with out one killing the other one?

with the growth you have in your last picture were the acro is covering the bottom of the tank what will you do when growth is about to touch another acro?

I frag or breakdown my bigger colonies.........other pieces I frag so they don't touch. I also have a lot of my corals in sections or pedestals I can move.

That Vivids is the only coral that is actually stuck to the bottom.......others with those big pools I can lift out and cut if I want to.

 

[Big E]

That is beautiful! I just rechecked my PAR today and it's actually 400 mid tank (top of my rock).

I'm actually thinking about removing the LED's, I feel like they make my coral too light, I don't like the spectrum, plus they only seem to add about 20 PAR anyway, but they do even out the light because they sit between rows of T5 and create more even coverage in my 18" wide tank.

I know that your tank is also 18" wide, have you ever felt the need to have 6 T5 bulbs for even coverage?

Whiskey

Thanks, 400 mid level is fine. I don't like LEDs in the middle, they work better on the outside and where you can aim them to criss-cross or at least in some respect at an angle for supplementation.

I'm not saying what you have won't work as Jroovers tank had some of the best colors in a combo T5-LED setup. His blues were the LEDs and when he went with white bulbs to alternate his colors were amazing.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2175051

I've told a lot of people with Powermodule hybrids to completely turn off the LEDs or work them to a very low level, then once the colors and growth settle in you can work them into the mix for that extra pop and fill on a slow basis to what you like best.

My tank is 24" wide with 4x54 over driven...........it does need two more bulbs. I may experiment with two actinics on the outside or just add more of the 50/50, but I probably won't run the outside two more than 4 hours a day.

Either way, I'm going to angle the reflectors slightly in.

 

[Big E]

I love this photo, growing acros outside of their original placement can be so telling at times. My pink acro and a smaller frag started to bleach badly, one in less than 150 PAR. A water quality issue IMO, and something I might not have guessed if I didn't have a frag.

But anyway, I like the encrusting acro pics. That acro is damn happy.

Thanks Mark.......great point you make on placement and finding the cause, good or bad.

 

[PatrikD]

From my experience the Coral+ helps with better reds in corals. It helps to promote the emitted colors from the coral itself as well as it's reflected light.
This is eventually what our eyes see"¦"¦.a combination of those two.

That's just one component from the lighting perspective. The other is the correct intensity, so placement is important"¦"¦"¦.this goes with any color, not just red. Sometimes you have to experiment at different heights to find the sweet spot.
Since I use a 50-50 combo with the blue+ it's horizontal placement is consistent no matter where I place the coral. The extra blue that the blue+ offers also helps to give that extra pop.

Overall, I've seen the best colors produced by T5 setups with ATI bulbs in pictures or in person. I'm also hesitant to give up my over driven setup.
I'm not sure it's a factor and still have to experiment more, but there is no argument that the bulbs burn brighter and slightly more white than under traditional T5 ballasts.

I don't promote the over driven setup because I've seen enough setups produce great colors under Sunpowers and other dominant T5 brands.

The next factor is the nutrient level, more specifically NO3"¦"¦"¦.if the nitrates are low you won't get vivid deep colors"¦"¦"¦.you'll get the more pastel look and the colors won't pop the same. A lot of the reds will look more light pink.

I don't focus on P04 as much, other than it's ratio to N03 and also how much pest algae and cyano show up . It doesn't affect color that much but it can affect growth. All my corals start to stall above .30 and it also creates a reverse level of P04 higher than N03 which has never worked for me long term. Below about .12 has worked better for me"¦"¦"¦.so my ballpark range is .02-.12

I like 100x ratio between the two and I have been tracking a lot of tanks that are having success in that ratio area. This seems to promotes the best growth as well and thriving growth= good color.

Lastly it's the coral itself"¦"¦"¦..for lack of a better term it's DNA. The dusky red type acros I get rid of. I only keep ones that can show off the richer brighter colors.

I've gone through a few shortcakes to find one I really like with intense red tips, same with millis and red tables.

One point about the blue spectrum specifically.......... more 450nm blue will promote more in the green, orange, and yellows in a lot of corals, but excessive amounts can also mute reds and pinks, again from what we see as well as what excites the pigments.

I covered this earlier in my thread about how the cones in our eyes view colors as the tank gets brighter or darker. It's why I try to keep a bright tank that is less blue than most.

A nice tint of blue looks good but too much and it becomes a point of diminishing returns.

Thank you Ed for your thorough answer and thank you for this thread. I think it's your systematic and consistent approach that gets me to read this thread over and over again. The coral photographs are extreme and of ooh aaah and wow quality.

Please.... more overview shots and FTS.

 

[Wiskey]

Thanks, 400 mid level is fine. I don't like LEDs in the middle, they work better on the outside and where you can aim them to criss-cross or at least in some respect at an angle for supplementation.

I'm not saying what you have won't work as Jroovers tank had some of the best colors in a combo T5-LED setup. His blues were the LEDs and when he went with white bulbs to alternate his colors were amazing.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2175051

I've told a lot of people with Powermodule hybrids to completely turn off the LEDs or work them to a very low level, then once the colors and growth settle in you can work them into the mix for that extra pop and fill on a slow basis to what you like best.

My tank is 24" wide with 4x54 over driven...........it does need two more bulbs. I may experiment with two actinics on the outside or just add more of the 50/50, but I probably won't run the outside two more than 4 hours a day.

Either way, I'm going to angle the reflectors slightly in.

Geez! If you can get these results with 4 bulbs over a 24" tank, then I should have no problem with 4 above an 18" wide tank. I must have got my threads confused, I thought yours was 18.

Do you have all your bulbs right close together in the center? Or spread apart across the top? If I remember right your bulbs are about 6" off the water, is that right?

Frankly I love the 2 Blue+ 2 coral+ look. That's what I started with, then I started adding all these LED's and such and things got complex. I'd rather just go back to simple. If it works so well for you then I can look elsewhere for any trouble I might have.

Your right! That LED tank is very nice. I'm flipping through the thread now.

Thanks so much for the help! Your tank and photography is gorgeous.
Whiskey