Treating with Vitamin C

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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12766568#post12766568 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Jeff
I run Vista here and cant get the first page to load :(
I get: To use this Web page interactively, you must have Microsoft� Internet Explorer 5.01 Service Pack 2 (SP2) or later and the Microsoft Office 2003 Web Components.

See the Microsoft Office Web site for more information.

dang, I was hoping it would be a little more robust.

Essentially it is a excel sheet saved as an interactive html, looks like the gang at microsoft has severely restricted it to only work with that set of microsoft components, let me see if I can figure a way around it.

The download version works right?

Thanks,

Josh
 
No problem Puffy...I have some off time right now so it would be great to participate and help you out. :)

Original testing:

SG 1.0255
pH 8.2
NH4 0 ppm/ NO2 0 ppm/ NO3 0>3 ppm
ALK 11 dKH/ 3.93 meq/L
CA 480 ppm
MG 1400 ppm

Dissolved 1/4 tsp VC in 2 cups RO H2O and put on a semi-fast dripline directly into the flow of the return at the top of the tank.

Right away my pink Goni closed up tight from full expansion. They can be very sensitive to different "tastes" in the water and it is in the direct flow path (on the bottom) of the return. Hmmm? So??? Freshwater or VC??? possibly both (but I had done a small topoff this morning with freshwater only and it was out fully expanded and stayed expanded during the topoff). Gave it another 10 mins before posting this and he (the goni) is making it's way back out again. So, it probably wasn't too sure about taking it's vitamin this afternoon! LOL :) It'll be interesting to see how he reacts tonight for the second dose.

Thanks again for all the help today getting started, I really appreciate it.
 
Good morniing all,

As I mentioned, yesterday was the first day of dosing VC. Started at 1/4 tsp dissolved in RO water set on fast dripline. Yesterday the tank received 2 dosings as far apart as possible before the lights on the tank went out, though not quite 8 hrs.

The only reaction I observed at both dosings was my pink goni closed up quickly upon the first few drops of VC into the water. It took about an hour (the second time) for the goni to start venturing back out. Other than that all other animals seemed fine.

Tank initially became slightly cloudy. Enclosed is a picture taken this morning prior to VC dose. Notice the slight haze. Sorry it's such a small pic but I think you get the idea.

192326Vitamin_C_Exp_18_Jun_08_-_Day_2_-_Cloudy_Tank.jpg


Please keep in mind that there is no sump or skimmer on this tank. I took out the carbon and the polyfilter as recommended. There is a small canister with (now since carbon and poly taken out) only micron filter pads and phosphate removal media inside.

I tested the pH and the ALK prior to dosing yesterday and this morning and both didn't budge. However, I read back on page 17 or 18 of this thread that someone else was experiencing a cloudy tank as well and that their ALK was about dKH 9, mine is 10-11dKH with an 8.2 pH. Is that why the cloudiness is occurring? And if so, what ALK levels are those of you with showing the most success with your tanks (Puffy, Jeff, etc) at?

I will continue to dose today and monitor the cloudiness and let you know. Anything else I should be looking for or attending to let me know. I will be checking the thread throughout the day.

Thanks again :)
 
An alk of 10-11 dkh with a ph of 8.2 is cool. I would keep an eye on it to make sure that the alk doenst creep up but you should be fine. At some point in my dosing I switched over to Tropic Marin Reef Salt because it tests at around 7-8 dkh. With 10% water changes weekly I was able to keep my levels very stable. I doubt that those readings were causing the hazyness you saw. Do you have enough flow in the tank?
 
Oh yes (to the flow)...

Three Korallias (Knano, K1 and K2) all on a wavemaker timer plus the return flow from the canister. Took a little tweaking to make sure it was not too much, and finally got it where everyone seems really happy.

Good to know about the water chems and I usually test all once a week (overkill probably to most) but that is the way I've been able to keep things stable. Plus, I do at least 10% H2O changes each week which probably helps (especially since I'm trying to hold out on the skimmer for a couple more months to let my sandbed/critters fully develop (which it already looks like a small flea circus in there now! LOL ;) ).

Good news to report though, I had to run out for a few quick errands today and when I got back (even though I dosed once already today) the tank had cleared up substantially. And my pink goniopora DID NOT close up upon today's dosing and looks great this afternoon.

I'll keep the thread updated as we go along....thanks again Jeff! :)
 
so I was talking more with my chemist friend about whether activated carbon would absorb the dosed ascorbate and according to her it is unlikely because activated carbon absorbs non-charged (neutral) molecules and ascorbate is negatively charged, so it probably doesn't get absorbed.

So I would recommend keeping your carbon in your tank while dosing.

Cheers,

Josh
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12776765#post12776765 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Pufferpunk
What about Purigen?

not sure what it is composed of, once I find out I'll let you know.

Cheers,

Josh
 
I just got done trying VC for the second time. I'm using 1 tsp (twice daily) of the iherb stuff. the first time I tried VC, I used it for two weeks and the second time I used it for one week. both times i got an out break of red slime algae. all of my corals look great both times I used VC.
 
I wonder if you already had some of this "algae" (it's actually a bacteria) & the VC is feeding it? I had cyano in my 15g Mantis tank & treated it with Chemiclean & now even with VC, it stays away. Sounds like you need to treat the problem, before trying VC.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12785981#post12785981 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Pufferpunk
I wonder if you already had some of this "algae" (it's actually a bacteria) & the VC is feeding it? I had cyano in my 15g Mantis tank & treated it with Chemiclean & now even with VC, it stays away. Sounds like you need to treat the problem, before trying VC.
yeah, I think you are right, I think I had a tiny little bit before. I still think the VC was good for my corals though.
 
Hello everyone,

We were previously discussing about whether or not carbon, polyfilters, purigen should be left in the filtration while we dose our VC...

I took out the carbon and the polyfilter upon recommendations of the thread. Then MBay provided us with some useful info from his chem friend...so I was curious about the polyfilter.

I sent polybio an email asking what their recommendation was for a few of us that were trying this VC experiment. Here is what was said in the reply email:
 
Sorry...here's the reply (maybe MBay could show this to his chem friend too):

"Why are so you adding L-Ascorbic Acid , sodium salt (Fw : 198.11) instead of using
L-Ascorbic acid ( Fw: 176.12 ) ? The L-Ascorbic acid (Fw:176.12 ) is available in a
99+ % ACS Purity with <0.002 % Heavy metals & < 0.002% Iron where as the
L-Ascorbic Acid, sodium salt is not available in even a 99 % purity level .
The L-Ascorbic Acid, sodium salt that you are using contains higher levels of
both Heavy Metals & Iron impurities. These heavy metals specifically lead may
be deposited in Invertebrates.

Next point : has one performing this test considered the effect upon the synthetic
salts trace elements ? Marine synthetic marine salt mixes use EDTA as a chelating
agent except for one specific brand , Marine Enterprises EPA Certified Bio Crystal.
Adding L-Ascorbic acid , sodium salt into aquaria containing EDTA chelated may further
reduce the availability of trace elements.
If the test participants are instead using natural seawater has anyone considered
the effect of adding these amounts of L-Ascorbic, sodium salt upon the Poly phosphate
& Tri Poly phosphate buffers ?

During the mid 1980's we were aware of attempts to use L-Ascorbic acid +
Methylene Blue ( in bare aquaria ) plus heavy aeration for cyanide caught fish .
Poly-Filter (r) was used in the aquaria after the cyanide - reversal attempt
and appeared to increase survival ratios.

As for our comment about using Poly-Filter (r) in this test, we wonder how
long the 5 milligram to 30 milligram doses of L-Ascorbic acid, sodium salt
actually remain viable : 15 minutes , 60 minutes when added to a highly
alkaline buffered reef aquaria. It would be somewhat similar to adding
very small amounts of HCL (Hydrochloric acid) or Sulphuric acid ( H2SO4)
into reef aquaria ! Using a pH meter you could see the mineral acids
neutralized within seconds. The organic acid would last longer but by
how much , a few minutes maybe one hour ? We don't believe this
small amount of organic acid (L-Ascorbic acid, sodium salt )would last long
enough in any reef aquaria , larger than 30 gallons , for a water pump to
pick up the traces to even pass through a Poly-Filter (r). Has anyone
spent the money to actually have a Independent Certified Research Lab test
the experimental reef aquaria water for residual L-Ascorbic acid, sodium salt
( in 5 - 30 mg. additions) after one hour ? Use a Independent Certified Research
Lab not someone associated with the experiment, or a friend of someone ,or
some company involved in the experiment.


Poly-Bio-Marine,Inc.(r) Established 1976
Patented Liquid Filtration Products
Phone 610-404-1400
Fax 610-404-1487
www.poly-bio-marine.com"


Any comments?
 
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