Treating with Vitamin C

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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12866086#post12866086 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SW_nOOb_SC

Also before VC, the frags of Zoas i had in my tank just exsisted. Now they are thriving seeing new babies all the time.

I think that most of the success stories with vitamin c follow this particular comment. I had a colony of 2-3 purple deaths (from Pufferpunk no less) for months before they started to spread while dosing vitamin c. I have been on and off vitamin c a couple times and have found much slower growth on a few of my softies when off of the vitamin and increased growth and color when dosing it. I have also found that the vitamin helps with decreasing nuisance algae growth. It is not my imagination nor is it something that "may" be happening. I can confirm that when i dose 5 ppm or more of iherb's vitamin c i get better growth on my softies and less nuisance algae (only in my fuge for some reason). I have not really seen the growth explosion on lps and sps as much as zoas, palys, ricordea, etc.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12859681#post12859681 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Pufferpunk
What about all the dying zoas that have come back like weeds since I've been dosing or that single polyp that is 25 now, where the colony were disappearing before dosing?

Ok... what about the thousands of people that have zoanthids grow like weeds, don't have problems with zoanthids dying, and have never dosed and never will dose vitamin C?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12867842#post12867842 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Jeff
Then they would most likely not benefit as much from vitamin c.

My point is that if people are having problems with zoanthids as a whole it's not because of a lack of vitamin C, there's something wrong with your water and/or setup. I don't doubt people are seeing benefits from vitamin C, but why are they seeing those benefits? Most of the results still seem to point to it acting as a carbon source and helping to clean up some "dirty" aquariums.
 
It has already been discovered a few pages back that VC boosts the production of collagen, which is in all our corals.

I have had issues with my zoanthids melting from day 1 of my coralkeeping. This is in 4 different tanks/systems. I have been in the hobby for 30 years & am meticulous about my tanks. I take one day off/week just to care for the 8 of them. My parameters are perfect. There are meny folks that have the identical problem & we just can't pinpoint why our zoas melt away while other's grow like weeds. Maybe it's something with our water but I use a RODI system, so I doubt that.

All I know, it's this is the solution I've been praying for & it works! It also is doing wonders for my other healthy corals, so that is a bonus, in adddition to lowering nitrate. With the cheap cost of VC, it's a win-win situation. I now feel confident to start adding some of the more $$$, higher-end zoas to my tank again, after losing thousands of dollars worth throughout the years.
 
I think that you are missing the point. I have had VC help dying zos and fresh cut soft corals for a while(3-4 months). The point that some in this discussion are making is that it helps with the acute problem. Just like penicillin helps with infections. The VC helps with the acute problem of failing zoos and keeping low morality in small soft corals.

Are there underlying problems? Of course there are, and somehow VC seems to anecdotally remedy this. Just as penicillin helps with infection. The lack of penicillin was not the cause of the infection, but is was the cure.

The real question is; should VC be used to treat the acute problem, or the chronic problem? Do long term additions of VC help overall water parameters as a carbon source, oxidizer, build up certain proteins, etc?

I have seen the benefits of VC in the acute problems, but have not seen the benefits of long term use. The bam bam zoo colony in question healed in the tank while changing no other parameter in regular husbandry. Once the colony began to revive and polyp extension increased I eventually stopped. I saw no extended benefit of additions or non additions. My frag rack gets vc additions for about two weeks when new softy additions are added. Once they heal, I stop.

I think that VC additions can be of great service in a pinch, just like having a coral dip, fluke tabs, lugols, flatworm exit, etc. Things that are needed to solve a problem.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12872721#post12872721 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Pufferpunk
It has already been discovered a few pages back that VC boosts the production of collagen, which is in all our corals.

I have had issues with my zoanthids melting from day 1 of my coralkeeping. This is in 4 different tanks/systems. I have been in the hobby for 30 years & am meticulous about my tanks. I take one day off/week just to care for the 8 of them. My parameters are perfect. There are meny folks that have the identical problem & we just can't pinpoint why our zoas melt away while other's grow like weeds. Maybe it's something with our water but I use a RODI system, so I doubt that.

All I know, it's this is the solution I've been praying for & it works! It also is doing wonders for my other healthy corals, so that is a bonus, in adddition to lowering nitrate. With the cheap cost of VC, it's a win-win situation. I now feel confident to start adding some of the more $$$, higher-end zoas to my tank again, after losing thousands of dollars worth throughout the years.

It may have been determined that ascorbates can play a role in collagen production in some organisms. However, to say that it plays a role in coral tissue production is nothing more than a wild guess, even if they are collagen based.

You say your parameters are perfect, but didn't you have detectable nitrates in your aquarium prior to starting your dosing? Also, just because you go through every test kit known to exist for aquariums and get good results does not mean your partameters are perfect. It simply means that what you're able to test for is of acceptable levels.

To give you an example... I have a 10 gallon set up with a short sandbed, it has nothing more than a powerhead, a couple HO T5 lights, live rock, sand, and various macro algaes. All measureable parameters are ideal by aquarium standards. However, I could not support coral in this aquarium. I've tried a few times with various frags from my other aquariums just for kicks. My tests tell me I should be able to, the equipment, while a little lacking, should be able to support hardier corals. So what's the deal? There's some about the water that I can't test for that just isn't right, either something lacking or something in too high a concentration. I'm sure aggressive waterchanges would fix the problem, but this tank isn't for corals so I don't worry about it. It's basically a display refugium for me.

I'm happy it works for you, I really am. However, growing and keeping zoanthids alive is not an issue for an overhwhelming majority of hobbyists. So, that leads me to a strong belief that vitamin C is not essential nor even important for zoanthid growth. The results you and others are seeing are probably based on various chemical reactions occuring in the aquarium as a result of the vitamin C additions.

Just taking what we know about carbon dosing... Obviously, it's causing bacteria populations to rise dramatically. We also know that bacteria could be a food source for various zoanthids. So, if the vitamin C is acting as a carbon source like some of us have suggested, one could also speculate that it's indirectly providing a food source for some zoanthids. We also know that different carbon sources will support a different strain of bacteria. I.E. dosing with sugar will feed a different bacteria strain than vodka. We could go into more wild speculation based on that... Will zoanthids use that extra bacteria as a food source? Are they particular as to the strain or bacteria they will consume? Are certain strains more nutritious than others and will what they consume do much to change their nutritional properties? All interesting questions, to me at least, but we'll probably never be able to answer them.

If I had the extra money laying around I'd set up 4 or 5 identical aquariums using an identical water source. Then add a frag of zoanthids from the same mother colony to each. Adding one small fish to each or one of the aquariums.

Aquarium 1: No dosing
Aquarium 2: Vitamin C dosing
Aquarium 3: Vodka dosing
Aquarium 4: Multi carbon source dosing
Aquarium 5: Perhaps another tank with no dosing, more aggressive water changes, or perhaps the aquarium with a fish

If someone would like to go forward with this please take my ideas and run with it. If someone has equipment or funds that they'd donate to make this happen I'll volunteer my time, space, and frags.
 
I dont think that vitamin c "just" helps if you have a problem. I dont think that I have a problem but if I do then thousands of other reefers are having the same problem. My setup is healthy and successful. I started dosing vitamin c because a friend suggested it to increase growth. I found that all of the claims made in this thread happened to my tank including the increase of growth, clearer water, and increased skimmate. I didnt have a problem before, I just gave my tank a "shot in the arm". Its the same principle as using good fish food as opposed to cheap food and good lighting over corals as opposed to shoplights. We all do things that we believe in and go with the experience of others that have actually tried these things out before us. I was skepticle also but tried it and stuck with the program. Vitamin c has been the easiest and cheapest thing that I do for my tank to "make things better then they already are".
 
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I just got caught up on this thread and its very encourageing to see more people dosing and getting good results :)

My corals are all doing much better in the last few weeks since dosing VC. Thanks again Pufferpunk and Jeff for the information and advice .

Peter Eichler, you sure like to draw attention to yourself lol. Have you even tried Vitamin C or just like to blindly argue? Its one thing to be skepticle but at least back yourself up with some proof or at least do the cut and paste thing like the others that gave up argueing.. There are dozens of happy reefers that participated in this thread with first hand experience, have you?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12878145#post12878145 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Trotter
I just got caught up on this thread and its very encourageing to see more people dosing and getting good results :)

My corals are all doing much better in the last few weeks since dosing VC. Thanks again Pufferpunk and Jeff for the information and advice .

Peter Eichler, you sure like to draw attention to yourself lol. Have you even tried Vitamin C or just like to blindly argue? Its one thing to be skepticle but at least back yourself up with some proof or at least do the cut and paste thing like the others that gave up argueing.. There are dozens of happy reefers that participated in this thread with first hand experience, have you?

Yes, I have tried vitamin C... This isn't the first time it has come around in the hobby, nor probably the last. Are you really asking me to back myself up when this thread is founded on nothing but anecdotal evidence? I'm trying to push people to provide some evidence or at least develop a sound reason why vitamin C is helping. However, all we're getting is people chiming in with things like "I got this new frag and look how much it's grown because of vitamin C"or "all my zoanthids used to melt and die and now they're growing and healthy". So much of what people are saying in this threads points to ascorbic acid acting as a carbon source... I don't know why some people are so resistant to that notion. At least I'm interested in getting to the bottom of what vitamin C might really be doing rather than snickering about why people want to get these "pests" to grow quicker or someone not being able to keep such an "easy" coral like zoanthids.
 
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At $40/polyp for some of my "pests", I'd rather not see them die! What about the recent info about collagen building?
 
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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12880588#post12880588 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Pufferpunk
At $40/poyps for some of my "pests", I'd rather not see them die! What about the recent info about collagen building?

It's hard to say if it means anything and if it would have an impact on coral growth or not. Thoguh it's pretty safe to say that vitamin C isn't an essential for growth in corals and/or zoanthids. At least not in elevated levels.
 
All the suppliments I take aren't essential for my health & well-being either but I take them just the same. Rarely get sick either.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12880649#post12880649 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Pufferpunk
All the suppliments I take aren't essential for my health & well-being either but I take them just the same. Rarely get sick either.
And you definatly colored up nicely :p
 
If you go over to the SPS forum they'll tell you that vodka or sugar make their corals color up and speed up the growth rate too. So why can't the carbon source provided by VC do the same. I guess I don't understand why you get so defensive when people ask why. I still am not sure after reading this whole thread what your curing?

~Dee~
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12888916#post12888916 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DEEC77
I still am not sure after reading this whole thread what your curing?

~Dee~

I dont think we really know either. I know I dont really understand what this form of vitamin c contains that works so well on my tanks but I just accept the fact that it does work. It may be a carbon source, it may be a colligan source, it may contain magic snake oil.
 
I am at a total loss as to why my zoas were melting in the 1st place & why other's grow like weeds. All I know is my zoas have stopped dying & started to multiply. I wish I had a better explaination for this. I have now been able to invest some $$$ on more high-end zoas again, without the worry that they will disappear.

The fact that the VC may act as a carbon source, lowering my nitrate to 0 (wasn't very high to begin with--around 5) & improve skimmer function, is just a bonus.
 
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