Treating with Vitamin C

[tmantaylor18]

So puffer, I dose vokda daily plus aminos. My zoas look good but I don't want a melt down like every talks about. You know of anyone that has tried to to VC with Vodka?

 

[Pufferpunk]

VC, like vodka reduces O2 levels in your system. I highly suggest AGAINST dosing both. I'd chose VC over vodka, as it does exactly the same thing to remove nitrate from your system but also boosts the collagen production in your tank, making corals & your fish healthier.

 

[tmantaylor18]

Lame , that was not the response I wanted. Lol my corals are already really healthy and colorful so I don't want to stop with that. Thanks for your help though.

 

[Pufferpunk]

Lame you say? NIMFT!

 

[micromount]

Sodium Ascorbate obsorbing water

Sodium Ascorbate obsorbing water

Have a new 1 lb. open container of NutriBiotic, Sodium Ascorbate Crystalline Powder. Has been open for several months. Lid has been closed everyday. Noticed several days ago that the powder was damp. Will it be any good?
Anything to do to dry it out more without clumping it up more?

 

[Pufferpunk]

Toss it & buy another. It's no good--looses it't potency in air, water, light & heat.

 

[Paul_PSU]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14161901#post14161901 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Pufferpunk
VC, like vodka reduces O2 levels in your system. I highly suggest AGAINST dosing both. I'd chose VC over vodka, as it does exactly the same thing to remove nitrate from your system but also boosts the collagen production in your tank, making corals & your fish healthier.

Also making wrinkles and smile lines disappear and giving them a more youthful look....:lol: Sorry couldn't resist. I may give it a try over vodka....still kicking it around.

 

[Pufferpunk]

I did actually hear that it makes your skin more youthful. Pretty sure that would also have something to do with collagen production.

 

[raw04f]

I have to say after reading this entire article everyone besides me has shared their experiences with Vitamin C. I went online and ordered the exact brand that was recommended by Puffer and tried it out on my 75 gallon reef. I have several LPS and softies and I noticed that my frogspawn and xenia were not fairing so well under the "C" (or so they call it on the streets) Upon further review I realized that the water purification aspect of the vitamin might be to blame for everyone's issues with LPS. Because of the clarity of the water, light will penetrate further into the tank, thus causing damage to corals that are used to receiving less light ...It is only a theory for now, but maybe others who have had problems with LPS and softies can shed some light (no pun intended) on the placement of their corals when they haven't responded favorably to doses of vitamin C....

 

[Pufferpunk]

Except I have a "show size" frogspawn right under my lamps & it's grown to a foot with the VC. All my other LPS (chalices, acans, brains, etc) have also gone thru growth spurts & are much more colorful now.

 

[Genetics]

So to sum up VC dosing in a nutshell. I'm rather new to this concept as I've been reading on it for about an hour. It seems that VC has the potential to act as a energy source to some meaningful extent which leads to lower levels of nitrate, while increasing the clarity of water, and outcompeting certain types of algae. VC from literature suggests a possible increase in collagen however looking at some observations involving possible bacterial infections, I feel that the anti-oxidative effect that VC may possess has a greater potential then any suggestion poised so far.

Now there seems to be some conflict in measuring VC at the ppm level. This stems from the lack of converting us gallons into liters. Does anyone have the corrected chart easily assessable? Also, I dose vodka and I see this could potentiate an issue in the near future. Anyone have any experience with this? I've seen posts with decent effects seen with VC at ~8ppm. Anyone notice if there is an increase above this or if duration plays more a role?

 

[Pufferpunk]

The converted chart we are all using now is here:

I use this product:
http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails...293197697039798
$5 0ff coupon code: LUL789
1/4 tsp=1112 mg.

For every 100 gallons:

5 ppm ----- 1892 mg VC
10 ppm ---- 3785 mg VC
15 ppm ---- 5677 mg VC
20 ppm ---- 7570 mg VC
25 ppm ---- 9462 mg VC
30 ppm ---- 11355 mg VC
Dose 2x/day.

Since both VC & vodka reduce your O2 levels, I highly suggest against using both at the same time.

 

[Genetics]

Is the large ORP drop noted with any sort of ppm dosing? If I add 5ppm equivalent will I see only a 30mV drop instead of the 100+ some people speak of?

 

[Ncastro1981]

I am up to almost 15 ppm for the first time. Been adding vit. since dec. 31 and have noticed some small changes along the way. I did have good results around 8ppm but still had issue's. I must say that when i first started doseng i had just transfered my coral beut and it showed signs of an ich outbreak. This went away in 24 hrs of dosing, so while there are things to consider you may be right about the anti-oxi effects. While things appear to have gotten better, i have 1 colony of zoo's that refused to open, and seemed to melt away. I broke this colony down into 3 colonys, and now the main orig, is doing 80% and the other two are on and off..aall my other colony's look great. I have noticed neg. effects on xenia (loss of nitrate supply?)

 

[Pufferpunk]

It's funny about all the neg effects folks post about... My xenia is growing like crazy at 23ppm.

I'm not sure the ORP drop correlates with the amount of VC we use but that would make sense. I've never tested for that. I only go up to 100ppm for severe fish illness or zoapox. Otherwise, keeping it at around 10ppm seems to be good maintence.

 

[raw04f]

Ncastro1981 where is the placement of your xenia...I had mine up high in my tank and it became much smaller, however when placed lower down in the tank I found that it reacted much better to the vitamin C doses. I think it could be due to the improved water clarity...It might be worth a shot moving the xenia down to the bottom if the water clarity was dramaticly changed in your tank.

 

[Pufferpunk]

LOL, mine's growing on the glass, right under the bulbs.

 

[Ncastro1981]

Mine is actually spread through out the different levels and i would agree that the one's towards the top may look worst, but reguardless the effect is tank wide. I have noticed the greatest change in clearity through my skimmer, now when i look into it it looks pristine and before it had a look of filth (reaction chamber).

 

[Pufferpunk]

As long as we have some scientists peeking at this thread again, I'd like to post these links & previous discussion about collagen production & VC:

There have also been recent suggestions that vitamin C encourages collagen production and may be doing so in corals and be a factor in why people are experiencing increased growth. In particular this article has been used to support that notion. There are also suggestions that the ascorbic acid is acting as an antioxidant and that this article also supports that.

http://www.pnas.org/content/105/1/54.full

"The addition of ascorbic acid to the culture media increased collagen production by â‰Ë" 40% in M. digitata cell cultures (4.4 Ã"šÃ‚± 0.2 weight percent collagen relative to total protein without ascorbic acid compared with 6.2 Ã"šÃ‚± 0.5% with ascorbic acid; P ≤ 0.01; Fig. 2"

here's another link that has been tossed around...

http://www.springerlink.com/content/8lp5y5e1kahpuqpe/

To me it seems that they're drawing incorrect conclusions, but that first paper is enough over my head that I don't feel confident in making a strong argument. Perhpaps they're onto something, I don't know, which is why I'm hoping for your input on the matter. I'm also very curious as to how the ascorbic acid could be acting as a carbon source.

Also, here are some random comments from others from that thread that have been bugging me a little and would also appreciate your input.

"yes, collagen is the tough, rubbery "skin" or structural body of soft corals which provides stability and resistance to deformation.

In hard or stony corals the collagen is "assisted" by spicules of calcium carbonate.

This is way many soft corals are low current loving species, because high current will force them to fold or collapse and is also why stony corals thrive in high current, their calcium carbonate infrastructure allows them to with stand it."

"Zoanthids rely heavily on collagen for structural support, as other corals utilize calcium carbonate. This might explain why the zoanthids start "melting" away while other corals do okay.

Think about it the structure of the zoanthid, tough rubber collagen skin on the outside, with a gelly like internal, if the coral is deficient in ascorbic acid and can't produce collagen skin, it would appear to be melting."

Here's one response in particular in relation to me feeling that the ascorbic acid is acting as a carbon source...

"I've been scouring text books, asking friends and searching online, for the life of me I can't find any info on adsorbate being used as a carbon source. I can't even find a possible chemical reaction or pathway that can reduce ascorbate back to glucose or any other sugar....I really don't think it is possible.

My friend whose conversation posted above is a biochemical graduate student, her work is actually in marine chemistry. I posed the question about ascorbic acid being a carbon source to her and shot it down after reviewing the literature on it.

 

[Pufferpunk]

Also, here is some info from the Reef Chemistry forum:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1338359
Way over my head.