Treating with Vitamin C

Status
Not open for further replies.
As I got through the second 40 pages I noticed the PNAS paper MontanaBay posted. Although the paper was stating the significance of a novel in vitro methodology, the authors demonstrated higher collagen levels from the ascorbic acid addition of 50ug/mL every other day. Though this measurement would be more useful if the entirety of the media itself was replaced at this time. I do feel though that this shows some promise in coral growth. Albeit only the montipora species benefited. Extrapolation of this number could yield a dose to look at more closely in our enclosed environments.

If 1 teaspoon of sodium ascorbate is 4.2grams and we need 50mg/liter/2days water. We can figure a daily dose of 25mg/liter and 1teaspoon per 50g daily would give you theoretically the same dose as the paper or ~22ppm.

The UV protection and anti-oxidant avenue has many coral bleaching papers. Without delving too far into this subject yet, this is where I would be betting the zoa improvement is coming from. But there are many variables and not one ever seems to be the sole method between a treatment.

As for the carbon food source, if you look at the bacterial breakdown of carbon molecules you will find many bacterial can utilize a wide range of molecules. In fact, this paper demonstrated breakdown of ascorbic acid by many types of bacterial fauna of the gut. This demonstrates the wide variety of bacteria that can use this molecule. It is not difficult to imagine that this pathway is conserved in marine bacteria. From this article, "Ascorbic acid was decomposed and utilized readily as a carbon food for the attacking bacteria, when the medium contained a suitable source of organic nitrogen, like peptone." Again, potential application of this means that with sufficient nitrates in the water column bacteria have the potential to utilize VC as a carbon source.

http://jb.asm.org/cgi/reprint/46/4/351

Many people think that glucose or a sugar is required for energy production. You do not need to have VC change into glucose for glycolysis to produce energy. There are many, many additional pathways for energy synthesis. Also, from this experiment it appears as if denitrification would be a suitable environment for the metabolism of VC (hence the nitrate reduction in the water).
 
In regards to ORP, I have approx 400+ gallons in my system and one teaspoon drove the ORP down very quickly. I now add 3-4 teaspoons and it does the same thing. I have even tried adding VC to my 45 gallon new saltwater mix trying to reduce the ORP drop, but it did not help. I have not noticed any ill effects due to the temporary drop in ORP in my tank.
 
No it really did not in my system. I posted ORP readings back around 12/25/08. After that I started to trial what different doses do to the ORP. It never really dropped lower when I added more. It goes down to a certain point and stopped.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14179605#post14179605 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by IBASSFSH
No it really did not in my system. I posted ORP readings back around 12/25/08. After that I started to trial what different doses do to the ORP. It never really dropped lower when I added more. It goes down to a certain point and stopped.

Try adding on a log rhythmic scale. Take ORP readings at 3.3tsp, 1tsp, and 1/3 tsp. My guess is that you will notice some ORP difference between those three doses. The other way would work too, but may devastate your tank with 10tsp.

Puffer,

4tsp can potentially "do more" than 1tsp. It really all depends on what that is and whether it is beneficial. I was merely stating from the author's work that significant differences in growth were observed at 22ppm between corals.
 
hey puffer, im crappy at math... can you help me out with what i should be dosing. i have a 58g with 20g sump so a total of about 70g of water. what should i be dosing in a tank that size?

also i wanna start dosing my 24g ap aswell. if you can help me out there aswell.

lastly i remember reading in this thread somewere that using vit c powder that has rose hipps is ok? is this true? that was the only thing i could find around my area.

thanks for the help
 
Ok, so I got a ways through this post a while ago and started dosing 1000mg VC to my tank three weeks ago. I had two issues; my zoa had contracted nudis and the treatments left them somewhat battered and in poor appearance and my sps seemed to have quit growing ( a few acros in particular).

Here are my unofficial, non-medical, non-scientific results after about three weeks. Within days of dosing the VC the zoa opened and the color got better. Last week I noticed that the acros that seemed to stop growing (I mean nothing for about 6 months) have new shoots about 1/2" long today. Coincidence? perhaps, but I'm going to keep doing it. I have to admit that after two weeks I missed a couple days here and there...
 
My week 3 observations. Seeing some interesting things so I'm going to keep this up.

1) My water is WAY clearer.
2) My hitchhiking xenia is disappearing.
3) Macro is growing slower (both my cheato & my pest caulerpa)
4) Skimmer is much more flaky. Keeps overflowing on me.
5) My LOTR Palys opened again after 2 weeks being closed. They look beaten up and pale but at least they opened.
6) I don't have to scrape the front glass as often.

Not sure I see much difference in color but I stare at the tank too often to notice things like that. Growth seems to be perking up a bit. I'll have to compare my old pics to new ones in a couple of months to see where I am.

Good stuff so far.
 
Merfin I think you are on the right track. All the exact same things happened in
my tank. Except I have noticed some color improvement..not only in my zoas,
but my orange monti is a bright orange now too and actually seems like its grown
in the past 2 weeks.. How long have you been dosing so far?
 
Here are my unofficial, non-medical, non-scientific results after about three weeks. Within days of dosing the VC the zoa opened and the color got better. Last week I noticed that the acros that seemed to stop growing (I mean nothing for about 6 months) have new shoots about 1/2" long today. Coincidence? perhaps, but I'm going to keep doing it. I have to admit that after two weeks I missed a couple days here and there...
No coincidence, it really does all that! Same here w/my SPS--almost no growth at all before VC. I reallly wan't even planning on keeping SPS, as I didn't want to do all the things necessary for their best health. Wound up with a few I liked because they were blue but not much growth on them for months (or so slow I realkly didn't notice). What a difference after VC though!
 
Thanks Reef Aquatics. I'm on week 3 so still fairly new on the dosing. The tank looks great so I have no complaints. I'm certainly seeing good growth and color, I just don't know if I can attribute that to VC or whether its just nature. My tank is only 8 months old so I don't really have a long enough past to compare against the current growth and color.
 
I'm along for the ride as well. I recently purchased two colonies of zoas; one regular green/ orange colony (@30 polyps) and a frag of tubbs blues. After about 3 days, the green colony started closing up and dying. I did a lugols dip and inspected for pests, but found nothing. More than 2/3 of it is dead/closed.

The tubs have never opened since I put the frag in the tank.

All of my parameters are fine and everything else in the tank is thriving.

I stated dosing VC on Saturday night. I have about 75 gal of water so I started with 1/3 tsp 2x/day. Day 2 put me at 1tsp.

Until I receive my sodium ascorbate from iherb, i bought the ascorbic acid powder from GNC.

Yesterday, I noticed that my mushrooms and a leather were pinched up and my GBTA tentacles were shriveled and pathetic looking. I checked my PH which is always at 8.3 or 8.4 and it was down @ 8.0. I was surprised that two doses had dropped the ph so quickly. I can't attest the negative reaction in my corals to the VC because it could also be the PH swing.

I've since kept an eye on the PH and added buffer...hopefully my iHerb shipment will get here soon so I can rule out it being a PH issue.
 
Blame that on the ascorbic acid--it has a pH of 4! The buffered Sodium ascorbate is at 7.1 & has little to no affect on your pH. Mine has never moved from 8.2-3. If you live where the windows are closed all winter, you will notice a drop in pH also.
 
Just picked up my Sodium ascorbate. So i need to make sure that my ph and alk are stable ? thats the main things before dosing?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14190127#post14190127 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Pufferpunk
Blame that on the ascorbic acid--it has a pH of 4! The buffered Sodium ascorbate is at 7.1 & has little to no affect on your pH. Mine has never moved from 8.2-3. If you live where the windows are closed all winter, you will notice a drop in pH also.

How does opening a window affect PH?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14191656#post14191656 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dancing4raiin
How does opening a window affect PH?

Gas exchange is hindered inside buildings. By opening windows the CO2 that builds up in a house can escape helping to raise you pH.
 
been reading this off and on for a while now, and after loosing a lot of zoas in the 110gal i sold, i want my new tank to take off.

in my new 29gal biocube setup (10/15/08), i have 15 kinds of zoas, 3 types of shrooms, birds nest, 2 types of monticaps, clove polyps, torch coral. only 1 fish, 6line and two shrimp. refug in the 2nd chamber w/ cheato & grow light.

i placed an order for my VC last weekend or so and it showed uptoday. the bad part, i just checked my ph and it was 7.8, the testing kit is expired (mar/08), so i need to get a new testing kit before i start dosing i guess. i just did a 5gal water change last monday.

so this coming weekend i should be able to start dosing;
a 29gal biocube, so i'm going to figure theres 20gal of water after the rock and sand. i figure i will does 1/8tsp in the morning and 1/8tsp at night to start off, doesn't look like much though.
 
If you are loosing a lot of zoas, get that dosing up to 1/4 tsp after 3-4 days, until you reach 1/2 tsp & stay there for a while.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top