Trouble with Alk, Ca, and pH

[Questin]

Ca = 600s
pH = 8
Alk = 3 meg

It has been this way for a few months now, maybe longer but I started keeping a weekly log 3 months ago cause I could not figure out what was going on in the tank.

First I tried to raise Alk but that did not seem to do anything. I figured if I raised Alk, the pH would go up, and then maybe Ca would finally start to go down. But that was not working so now I am onto raising the pH with chemicals. I also do water changes every week, I do around 15% and one 40% in hopes to get the Ca down, but it just does not go down.

I use RO/Di water and mix in Tropic Marin Pro reef salt

Seachem Reef Builder (raises carbonate alkalinity) was what I was using to get the alk up.

Kent Strontium & Molybdenum is used once a week

SEA LAB #14 PH BUFFER is what I use now to get the pH up

Kent Lugol's Solution is added weekly for iodine

temp: 80
salt: 1.022
nitrate: 0
nitrite: 0
phosphate: 0

 

[returnofsid]

Here's a link to GREAT DIY home made supplements for Ca, Alk and Mg. All the ingredients can be made with stuff you can buy at your local grocery store, hardware store or Walmart.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php

Here's another link to a reef chemistry calculator that you can use to determine how much supplements to use, based on your water quantity, current parameters and your goal parameters.

http://reef.diesyst.com/

 

[Sk8r]

Remember that alk and cal will not stabilize if there's a magnesium shortage.

 

[bertoni]

The SeaLab block is suspect, in my opinion, and I would remove it, since it's uncontrolled dosing.

Have you measured some freshly-mixed saltwater? Perhaps the salt mix has a problem.

 

[Mustang394]

What test kits are using? I know you didn't post the 3 months logs but if there hasn't been any fluctuation I would be suspect of the test kits

 

[Maudsley]

For what this is worth, I used a buffer block and it definately messed my water parameters up bad, it was removed a month ago and now all my parameters are good, it took two 40% water changes to get my calcium down, now i just dose A and B and mg. All has been fine since I removed the block

 

[Billybeau1]

Lets break it down.

1st. Your Calcium is not in the 600's if you are using TM Pro. I suspect test kit error.

2nd. your figures based on 1.022 is almost impossible. (with any salt)

3rd. there is absolutely no reason to add strontium and molybdenum once a week as these two are supplied sufficiently by the salt mix you are using.

4th. dosing iodine is not needed in MOST cases in a reef aquarium.

So, lets start with these questions.

How do you measure specific gravity ?
What brand Calcium test kit ?
Have you tested your iodine level ?

 

[Questin]

ok, to start I never said I used a block. Sea Lab has a block yes, but I do not use that, only the pH Buffer they offer.

As far as test kits go, I thought at first my test kits might be wrong, so I bought different brands of kits and I got the same results.

Calcium kits I have are:
Seachem Reef Status: Calcium Test Kit
Hagen Calcium Test Kit

pH and Alk kits:
Seachem Marine pH & Alkalinity Test Kits
Aquarium Pharmaceuticals pH

salt is measured with a Deep Six Hydrometer

everything else is measured with Aquarium Pharmaceuticals

I use to use B-Ionic Calcium Buffer 2 part, but have not in a long time cause of the high Calcium.

For the iodine, I use it for the shrimp and craps mostly, and when I have something that was fragged to help healing. I have never tested for iodine thou.

What would be impossible if I have 1.022 in salt? oh btw, I changed to this salt not all that long ago because of these problems. Should a few more very large water changes happen to maybe clean out the old saltwater?

 

[Questin]

I guess I need to mention one more thing. I have a nice RO/DI kit that was dumping into a 100 gallon container. Well this was a used container and after some very frustrating events I found out that this container was leaching phosphates badly. I have since stopped using this container and no longer have phosphates showing up anywhere.

 

[David Grigor]

Stop using the PH Buffer for starters. There is no need for it. Providing your ALK levels are sufficient, your PH is most likely due to excess CO2. Buffer isn't going to really help that but will screw up your alk/CA balance.

 

[bertoni]

pH buffers are just high-pH alkalinity supplements, so some care is needed when using them. The alkalinity in the tank isn't that high, so that seems okay.

I'd try some large water changes, after testing some freshly-mixed saltwater. If the new saltwater measures high in Ca, that's another issue.

 

[Billybeau1]

I suspect your s.g. is higher than 1.022

I would get a second opinion on the s.g. either a good quality floating hydro or a refractometer. Swing arms have too many ways to error (bubbles on the arm etc.)

 

[Europa13]

All those additives you are adding to your tank are not needed. They are probably doing more harm than good. The only things you should add to your tank are; calcium, alkalinity, and possibly magnesium. Most additives on the market are gimmicks targeted to beginners... If your alk is low, raise it with baking soda. If your calcium is low, raise it with calcium chloride. Then maintain your levels with a 2 part balanced additive.

 

[Questin]

A good quality floating hydro or a refractometer is something I have been wanting to get for a while now, so I might as well do it. But I do always make sure that there are not any bubbles on the arm of the thing, and it is not all that old either.

Time for some more big water changes it looks like.

 

[Billybeau1]

I wouldn't get too drastic until you find out what your real water parameters are.

If your livestock looks good, leave it alone. And if you havent already, stop using that pH buffer. Your alkalinity is probably high now which is caused by the buffer. Buffers tend to only have a short term affect on pH and raise alk through the roof.

You can get an inexpensive refractometer for about 50 bucks.

 

[Kolognekoral]

Questin,

I've been having a high Calcium, between 600-700 for 6 weeks or so. I have trouble maintaining the pH and the Alk, which tend to dip. ph=7.6-7.8, with the Alk dropping rapidly.

Now, adding carbonate will raise my Alk, but this drops again, so is no real solution. I have noted that the Magnesium, which is rarely tested seperately, dropped to about 960. I have been supplementing with Bio-Magnesium and the levels are balancing out again.

I think there is a relationship in the Calcium-Magnesium ratio and the Alk pH. It is too soon to tell if this is a solution, but the Magnesium has certainly helped my Gorgonians, which have taken a jump in growth and polyp extension. I think we tend to underestimate this mineral(element).

Just another 2 cents,

 

[bertoni]

Magnesium helps prevent abiotic precipitation, and moving it from 960 ppm to something higher might add quite a bit in keeping alkalinity up.

 

[Questin]

Magnesium hmm. I do add that to the tank, but this was something I just started to do. Do you think Kent Strontium & Molybdenum is good enough for this, or would you recommend another product?

A test kit I would guess I should get for this as well.

 

[bertoni]

I would supplement only magnesium. Kent Tech-M worked well for me, although I use a DIY formula now. Salifert, ESV, and Warner also make good supplements. The SeaChem supplement is mostly just Epsom salts, so I'd avoid that one.