TTM and Amyloodinium

[Deinonych]

I know that TTM is not a recommended treatment for Amyloodinium (velvet). I was thinking about this today, and am wondering why specifically TTM wouldn't work? Velvet has a similar complex life cycle like Cryptocaryon, with feeding, encysting and free-swimming forms.

Is the reason TTM doesn't work because Amyloodinium dinospores remain infective much longer than Cryptocaryon theronts (up to 15 days vs. 1-2 days)? Or, is there another reason?

 

[ThRoewer]

TTM could work as the framework to rid fish of Amyloodinium. Though the actual cleaning of the fish would have to be done with formalin dips during the transfers.

 

[snorvich]

TTM could work as the framework to rid fish of Amyloodinium. Though the actual cleaning of the fish would have to be done with formalin dips during the transfers.

This is correct. You would need to take great care that no water is transferred into the next cycle, however, and meticulously use different equipment. I would shorten the cycles to two days rather than three days.

 

[HumbleFish]

I doubt most fish could survive even 48 hrs in the presence of attacking dinospores without chemical intervention to eradicate them. So, a fish with velvet would probably need to be transferred immediately after first noticing symptoms to stand a chance.

 

[ThRoewer]

If I had an active outbreak or just enough of an suspicion I would treat it with CP in a clean HT.
The clean tank is an important detail. I tried it in a QT that was running for a while and had significant slime algae growth. They all died and messed up the water. So after 4 days I stopped, cleaned the tank and did a near complete water change.

In my opinion CP is best used in combination with TTM and formalin baths to eradicate Amyloodinium and Brooklynella. The 3 (or 2) day periods in the tanks with CP ensure a correct dose and limit the fish's exposure to the medication to a minimum.
From what I have read around here about peoples experience with CP in DTs I gather that fish do fine with CP for two weeks but unexplained losses start when it goes beyond a month. So I would want to keep it significantly below that.

 

[ThRoewer]

You would need to take great care that no water is transferred into the next cycle, ...

The formalin dip should kill all free stages that may be transferred with the fish. Additionally you may consider a freshwater rinsing bath of about one minute before putting the fish into the next tank.

 

[snorvich]

For exhibited amyloodinium, CP is the treatment of choice. No TTM is required. The question was asked under what circumstances TTM could be used.

 

[alprazo]

TTM with velvet can induced a partial immunity if done correctly. I'll look for the study and post it. It had to do with vaccine development. It is true because I reproduced it. The issue is that the fish becomes a carrier and can pass velvet on without showing symptoms. Also If the parasitic load reaches a certain level from other infected fish, it will overwhelm the immune fish and it will die. Immunity is accomplished by exposing the fish to velvet and starting TTM before symptoms begin. Once they start, it could be too late. Treating with CP will also cause some immunity if used on an infected fish. I had a tomato clown that lived with velvet for years and allowed me to experiment with CP and other treatments. Died in a power outage.

 

[Deinonych]

Good discussion, guys...appreciate the insight and commentary.