TTM Fail

[texdoc77]

Recently purchased a powder blue, he was eating well and very active. Placed him in tank #1. Put prime in the tank on day #2. Did well for the first three days. Matched temp and salinity to tank #2 and transferred in the morning of day 4. By the afternoon it was dead. No signs of problems, no weird swimming, nothing just a dead fish in the bottom of the tank.

Maybe this is an unanswerable question, but would you all mind giving me some thoughts on what might have happened so I can avoid it in the future.

Thanks in advance.

SC

 

[sde1500]

I've had that happen to a few fish. Wish there could be an easy answer, sometimes it just seems to happen. Got to think, these fish go through a lot before we get them.

 

[CoralsAddiction]

It could have been stress of transfer which is the main issue I have with TTM. I've lost two wrasses just by virtue of transferring them from one tank to another. Sorry for your loss and good luck next time.

 

[Deinonych]

I've had that happen to a few fish. Wish there could be an easy answer, sometimes it just seems to happen. Got to think, these fish go through a lot before we get them.

+1

Sometimes fish just don't acclimate well to captive life. I've lost many fish during QT, but none can be directly attributed to the TTM process.

 

[snorvich]

It could have been stress of transfer which is the main issue I have with TTM.

If done properly there is no stress on the fish.

 

[sde1500]

Not to nit pick Snorvich but I have to assume there is some stress. We are catching the fish and moving them to a new tank every few days. Not sure how that won't stress them a little at least.

 

[snorvich]

Not to nit pick Snorvich but I have to assume there is some stress. We are catching the fish and moving them to a new tank every few days. Not sure how that won't stress them a little at least.

I disagree. Use a square colander not a net. I have done this dozens of times. But its your choice, do what you want.

 

[texdoc77]

Thanks for the input everyone! I don't much like killing fish, but it makes me feel better that I am not the only one.

Interesting debate concerning stress we have going on. Here is my .02

When we use a nebulous word like "stress" we are assuming there is a known quantifiable definition. If someone jumps out and scares you and your heart begins to beat faster, is this stress? Well your fight or flight response was engaged and stress hormones were released. So on a purely physiological level you could say you were "stressed". However, you quickly recover and have no long term effects from this encounter. So you did not sustain any significant stress.

I actually think you are both right in this regard. Some minor stress occurs to the fish, but no significant stress. Certainly not the kind of stress like temp or salinity changes.

Maybe I will try another fish than a powder blue. It should be added at the end of the stocking cycle anyway.

 

[CoralsAddiction]

When we use a nebulous word like "stress" we are assuming there is a known quantifiable definition.

Why deny or question a generally accepted term in medical and legal field, and by the general public? Lol There are many diseases and medical conditions that are stress induced. Also, mental anguish, emotional distress are commonly used in tort law...stress is definitely quantifiable in the court of law in Intentional Infliction Of Emtional Distress cases (and Neglient infliction), it's called settlement or verdict...so yes it is quantifiable.
Anyway, good luck. Powder blue tangs are gorgeous fish but might be a little big for your 55 gallon as indicated in your signature.

 

[snorvich]

Why deny or question a generally accepted term in medical and legal field, and by the general public? Lol There are many diseases and medical conditions that are stress induced. Also, mental anguish, emotional distress are commonly used in tort law...stress is definitely quantifiable in the court of law in Intentional Infliction Of Emtional Distress cases (and Neglient infliction), it's called settlement or verdict...so yes it is quantifiable.
Anyway, good luck. Powder blue tangs are gorgeous fish but might be a little big for your 55 gallon as indicated in your signature.

You don't like TTM. Don't use it.

 

[Dmorty217]

Recently purchased a powder blue, he was eating well and very active. Placed him in tank #1. Put prime in the tank on day #2. Did well for the first three days. Matched temp and salinity to tank #2 and transferred in the morning of day 4. By the afternoon it was dead. No signs of problems, no weird swimming, nothing just a dead fish in the bottom of the tank.

Maybe this is an unanswerable question, but would you all mind giving me some thoughts on what might have happened so I can avoid it in the future.

Thanks in advance.

SC

This is more common than you think. To each their own, there are other options to assure that fish are disease free they just all involve meds.

 

[Naraku]

I suspect ammonia rise.

I recently had a rainfordi die in quarantine. water was cloudy and there was heavy breathing. Even with daily water change and prime it wasn't enough.

I'm going to alter ttm by placing seeded rocks for each transfer

 

[MrsReefK]

I disagree. Use a square colander not a net. I have done this dozens of times. But its your choice, do what you want.

Yes, square colander works amazingly! Our fish are scooped up and moved to the next in one second. They settle right in within the transfer tank, no sign of stress at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[texdoc77]

Why deny or question a generally accepted term in medical and legal field, and by the general public? Lol There are many diseases and medical conditions that are stress induced. Also, mental anguish, emotional distress are commonly used in tort law...stress is definitely quantifiable in the court of law in Intentional Infliction Of Emtional Distress cases (and Neglient infliction), it's called settlement or verdict...so yes it is quantifiable.
Anyway, good luck. Powder blue tangs are gorgeous fish but might be a little big for your 55 gallon as indicated in your signature.

Stress is a generally accepted term. But without proper quantification it is still nebulous. And of course it is quantifiable, this is why we have stress tests. But in our cases when we simply say "stress" it is not quantified. I was merely trying to give some quantification to make the discussion more meaningful. I absolutely agree that certain levels of stress are associated with disease. However, there are lower levels of stress that are associated with health as well. Studies prove that certain animals in completely stress free environments do not fare as well as others with a LOW level of stress. Of course with high levels of stress as you rightly stated some animals become weaker and more prone to disease.

I think the ultimate question for me is does the low level of stress from TTM, when done appropriately, outweigh the benefits of TTM. This is really the heart of the matter.

Also I am upgrading to a 150 gallon, but until it arrives I still have the 55. I think a powder blue is OK in a 150, yes?

 

[snorvich]

I suspect ammonia rise.

I recently had a rainfordi die in quarantine. water was cloudy and there was heavy breathing. Even with daily water change and prime it wasn't enough.

I'm going to alter ttm by placing seeded rocks for each transfer

Add prime on day two of each transfer for a simple solution.

 

[sde1500]

TTM Fail

I disagree. Use a square colander not a net. I have done this dozens of times. But its your choice, do what you want.

I do use TTM. Though frustrated with it at one point I agree it's a good manner of QT. I'm not attacking that. But no matter the method catching a fish, removing it from the water, and transferring it to a new tank will stress the fish a little. It may be slight and go by fast but it will. Just like if someone rapidly caught you, stuck you in an environment you could breath in, then put you back. You'd probably think that wasn't fun. That's all I'm saying, stating it's entirely stress free I don't think is accurate. More like, relatively low stress I guess.

 

[CoralsAddiction]

Also I am upgrading to a 150 gallon, but until it arrives I still have the 55. I think a powder blue is OK in a 150, yes?

It will be fine in the new 150 but you might have issues adding fish after it. If I were you I would add it last. By the way, there are many hobbyists that use TTM routinely with success, even with formalin dips in between. So it obviously works for them.

 

[CoralsAddiction]

You don't like TTM. Don't use it.

True I prefer other alternatives but I still respect people who take their time and make the effort to treat their livestock with TTM

 

[Naraku]

I did and it still caused death in my fish.
Perhaps I should reduce the bioload.

Add prime on day two of each transfer for a simple solution.

 

[texdoc77]

It will be fine in the new 150 but you might have issues adding fish after it. If I were you I would add it last. By the way, there are many hobbyists that use TTM routinely with success, even with formalin dips in between. So it obviously works for them.

I should have just waited anyway, now I'm $60 down the hole. :headwallblue: