Tube feeding success - regal angel

[ThRoewer]

Neither sinking nor floating - it's more of a balancing issue. The fish seems to have more buoyancy at its tail than on its snout and sometime flips over in the flow.
I will see if I can take a video when I get home.

 

[ThRoewer]

The regal got its first tube feeding. He's not very happy but alive.
I used the urine catheter tube. Not sure if it went into its stomach, but I think a good deal of the STAT got in.
I've shortened and reworked the feeders a bit. Tomorrow I will try the one with the thinnest silicone tube.

 

[selje]

This is very interesting! How much do you force feed the fish? Is stat what you guys recommend?

Good luck with the Regal. I hope you succeed.

 

[Dmorty217]

Stat thinned out if you will with pedialyte. It Varies depending on type of fish and how large the fish is, but not much.

 

[selje]

Ok, thank you. How is the Tricaine-S inserted by the way?

 

[ThRoewer]

Stat thinned out if you will with pedialyte. It Varies depending on type of fish and how large the fish is, but not much.

I do not thin it. My feeders handle it easily without thinning.
Also I need to give the fish the highest possible nutritional value at the smallest possible volume.
Getting ready to do the next feeding.

...How is the Tricaine-S inserted by the way?

For these fish it gets administered through their gills by dosing the water bath they are in. But you can also spray a solution on the gills - usually that's how it's done with larger fish.

 

[Dmorty217]

I do not thin it. My feeders handle it easily without thinning.
Also I need to give the fish the highest possible nutritional value at the smallest possible volume.
Getting ready to do the next feeding.



For these fish it gets administered through their gills by dosing the water bath they are in. But you can also spray a solution on the gills - usually that's how it's done with larger fish.

The electrolytes in the pedialyte I think is also important. Once you open the stat and take it out of the fridge it will be far too thick to use without pedialyte

 

[ThRoewer]

I'm not sure electrolytes are really an issue for saltwater fish - they can get pretty much everything form the saltwater they drink.

I just did the second feeding, but I'm not sure I actually got it into the stomach with the soft tubing. The fish was breathing out a lot of the STAT in the recovery bath.
Next time I will try the stiffer pipette tip.

 

[alprazo]

The reason I use the pedialyte is for the glucose and hydration. You can also use Gatorade now that it no longer contains HFCS. A starved fish I believe is also dehydrated. Stat is what some of us in the shark world used for neonate pups that wouldn't eat. tube feeding sharks is nothing new and the formulation of stat and pedialyte is not my creation, but I thought I could be successful with fish. Before starting, I searched everywhere and found not a single source. The clown that in the video was my first attempt. There I used mashed/dissolved flake food. It was a healthy fish. For an imaciated fish I wanted to try a high caloric diet and since I had stat In my fridge, it fit the bil. I've also used the mazuri fish diet with menhaden oil as a gruel, but the blender took forever to clean. It is interesting to hear that live aquaria and others are doing it. I wonder what they are using. I first tried the cordis from a central line, it worked well but the kit was very expensive, I had trouble with silicone tubing, but the angiocath was perfect. The problem is that you likely need a prescription to buy them. Even with the needle removed, it sounds like they may still be lost in the mail. Hopefully the next will arrive. I first posted this in video 2012. You are only the third person to contact me about it, Derek and Peter being the others. Hopefully more will follow. I think It could help a lot of fish.

 

[ThRoewer]

Well, I will try diluting the STAT a bit with the Pedialyte since I already have it.

Had I known that I would need catheter tubing a few years ago, I could have gotten whatever I wanted since I was working for a manufacturers of stents and catheter products...

As for DD, I think they use a variety of tubing depending on the size of the fish. DrsFosterSmith.com also offers a Intravenous (I.V.) or Subcutaneous (S.Q.) Macro-Drip Fluid Administration Set which they recommended. But I don't think it is any better than what I already have.
It makes kind of sense that they use this technique. They can't afford to pour fish down the drain and if you know the tricks, why not use them.
As for the food, they normally use a fish egg/cyclops mixture enriched with Selcon.
But I feel the STAT may have the higher energy content right now.

 

[Dmorty217]

If DD is really force feeding fish I would expect a lot more of the hard to keep butterflies like ornate,lavartus and Meyers to be coming out of there. Especially since they are "filler" fish that literally cost dollars wholesale. Clearly I'm wrong though. With DD marking fish up 3-400% they aren't pouring money down the drain.

 

[ThRoewer]

Just did the third feeding, this time I tried the stiffer pipette tip as it is the thinnest tip I have.
Though I don't know if I got anything into the fish's stomach. Most of the feeding solution ended up in the weak-up bath like the times before. I also didn't feel the belly filling up.
I couldn't insert the tube deep enough to actually reach its stomach. I hid resistance at about the end of the operculum and didn't want to push too hard to puncture anything.
It feels like there is a full blockage.
This fish may just be beyond rescue at this point. It's now full 7 weeks without any food.

I feel to be successful with this you need to start as early as possible, before there is too much weight loss and atrophy of the intestines. With this fish it probably should have started latest after 2 to 3 weeks.

I will continue trying over the next week, but if I don't see improvement I may just give it a Tricaine-S overdose to end its suffering.

 

[ThRoewer]

He died last night. Not sure if it was simply starvation, the stress of the feeding or if I caused some intestinal damage during the last feeding.

 

[BigBlueTang]

He died last night. Not sure if it was simply starvation, the stress of the feeding or if I caused some intestinal damage during the last feeding.

Sorry for your loss. I was hoping he would pull through.

 

[ThRoewer]

I feel it was already too late when I first started looking into tube feeding. It should probably have started after it wasn't eating for two weeks, three at the most.

I will still continue to learn tube feeding so that I know how to do it should I ever need it again. But before trying it again on a live fish I will get a dead fish of appropriate size from the grocery store to get more familiar with fish anatomy.

 

[Dmorty217]

Sounds like from previous posts that you probably didn't have the cath inserted far enough if you saw a lot of stat come out in the recovery bath. Should be minimal if done correctly. It takes practice to do it right and the larger the fish the easier it is. I am going to try my luck with some Ornate and Meyers BFs in a month or two with the force feeding in hopes they will eat prepared foods that isn't a clam on the half shell

 

[ThRoewer]

Sounds like from previous posts that you probably didn't have the cath inserted far enough if you saw a lot of stat come out in the recovery bath. Should be minimal if done correctly. It takes practice to do it right and the larger the fish the easier it is. I am going to try my luck with some Ornate and Meyers BFs in a month or two with the force feeding in hopes they will eat prepared foods that isn't a clam on the half shell

That's what I figured. The last feeding I did yesterday evening seemed to have gone in, but I may have also injured something.

I'm probably done buying regals - the ones I have are doing fine and I wouldn't have space for more anyway.

Still, I feel it is a good skill to have, so I will get a similar sized and shaped fish from the Asian supermarket this week to get a better idea of the anatomy and train dissecting it (my wife can have it afterwards for her hot pot).

 

[OrionN]

I am sorry that it did not work. If I am you I would dissect his throat to see what is down the throat of a fish. Nest time I got my hand on a fish (fishing) or if I have a large fish died on me, I will do a post to see first hand the anatomy of the fish. Of course I will look it up also but nothing beat first hand look at things.

 

[DaveRaz]

Sorry to hear the fish died. Mine is not eating very well but seems to love GSP.

 

[foshizzle]

I just performed a tube feeding on a new regal angel - successfully I hope? I used crushed spectrum pellets and mysis with a little RO water. After 30 minutes the fish looks good.

I used clove oil at about 1 drop/Liter (less than some recommend). Impressive stuff the fish was sedated within 2 minutes. He was fed and back in QT in another minute.


My question is should I be worried about longterm effects of clove oil on fish health after a few doses?