Tunze - False Advertisement?

[SkullV]

I guess.... if you don't account for the "point anywhere" design or the near silent operation and you are JUST considering flow. But to me, the fact you can't really aim a VorTech puts me off.. I can't put them on a diagonal path or anything. maybe nobody but me cares?

**Preface I am not a Vortech "fanboy," you better believe that if the study showed the Vortech was 40% under advertised power I would be demanding a refund. I have owned Vortechs, Tunzes, Koralias, and a ton of other powerheads and this is what I have found**

The point with a Vortech is, you just don't need to point it. The flow is so wide and so powerful throughout the entire width of flow that pointing it isn't necessary. One pump on either side of a standard rectangle will be more then sufficient flow for 90% (not a factual number) of SPS tanks out there.

You and James keep talking about this retrofit that WILL be coming, but the fact is that everything Roger keeps saying is "we expect," "should," etc. it may just never come. Also, what happens if even after they produce the retrofit they still can not attain the advertised flow do they recall the pumps and refund everyone their money? Also where did you find your "fact" that the other Tunze pumps were in line with the advertised flow numbers? The study doesn't make any mention of those pumps.

The fact still remains, all packaging/materials with the incorrect flow numbers needs to be recalled and fixed or Tunze is simply continuing to sell their under-performing product under false pretenses.

 

[93dxeg]

I personally like ecotech pumps, but if tunze corrects these problems for existing customers free of charge (upon proof of ownership or purchase) then i would consider them a stand up company, and if one of there powerheads was better suited for my application i would still buy from them. The main thing is going to be if they intend on charging customers for there lack of r&d!

 

[Mindflux]

The point with a Vortech is, you just don't need to point it. The flow is so wide and so powerful throughout the entire width of flow that pointing it isn't necessary. One pump on either side of a standard rectangle will be more then sufficient flow for 90% (not a factual number) of SPS tanks out there.

I guess.. though some areas might require stronger flow than others (SPS).. directional pointing is helpful here. I see a lot of folks run their Tunze pumps in a cross flow pattern... there's got to be a reason for it other than the supposedly 'narrow' flow of the present Tunze pumps.

As far as demanding a refund.. I guess you could try but it's within the companies discretion to deny you a refund and offer you a free or near free fix in the coming months.

Eh, in 2 years the only thing folks will remember is that Tunze fixed the problem never denied the results of the test.

 

[djkms]

Sorry guys but you are all ridiculous. Before the article came out all the tunze fanboys raved about their powerheads. Now that the article is out everyone wants a handout because Tunze miscalculated their ratings. Are your corals all of a sudden mad because they are not getting enough flow? If the flow was such a issue why didnt anyone bring this up BEFORE the article was made? If these powerheads supposedly killed your corals why didnt you try to rectify the situation before it got worse? Why didn't you add more flow? I stare at my tank for hours on end. I KNOW just by looking at my tank if my corals are getting enough flow regardless of what the package on my powerhead says.

Tunze admitted they were wrong. My Gosh people, we are all human and make mistakes. Its how we make our mistakes right and fix the problem that make is who we are and if handled correctly, make us better. They are now trying to rectify the situation and make it right for their costumers and all everyone is doing now is kicking them while they are down.

This is the problem with America, everyone thinks everyone owes them something. No one takes responsibility for their own actions. It's not Tunze's fault your tank did not have enough flow, its YOURS for not judging correctly your systems needs. Take responsibility and quit placing blame. Now people are talking about suing them? Really? You guys do realize that when a company is sued and pays out on a lawsuit that that cost is eventually passed down to you, the consumer!! Insurance is a prime example. Every *****es about the cost of insurance but as soon as they have a claim they want to get paid out 200,300,400,500% more then what they put in because the big bad insurance company owes them and if they don't get what they want they hire a law firm to sue the company for millions and guess what, that cost goes right back to you the consumer.

Now if you brought your issue about the mis-advertised flow up with Tunze before the article then I applaud you for doing your research and knowing that something was not right, but those who are now complaining hold no water in their argument. Sorry.

Dont get me wrong, I agree that you should get what you paid for, you paid for a advertised GPH and now Tunze is working hard to make that right which is more then most companies due this day in age. We should all be applauding them, not kicking them while they are down.

 

[SkullV]

As far as demanding a refund.. I guess you could try but it's within the companies discretion to deny you a refund and offer you a free or near free fix in the coming months.

Is this statement rooted in law or is it just something you think?

Eh, in 2 years the only thing folks will remember is that Tunze fixed the problem never denied the results of the test.

I will agree with you IF the retrofit is issued, sent to ALL current pump owners (including Tunze doing their due diligence to find pump owners who do not contact them since not everyone reads forums) and is actually able to attain the rated flow numbers without adding significant noise/heat to the product. It would be interesting to see the sales statistics for Vortech and Tunze for the next few months.

 

[Mindflux]

I will agree with you IF the retrofit is issued, sent to ALL current pump owners (including Tunze doing their due diligence to find pump owners who do not contact them since not everyone reads forums) and is actually able to attain the rated flow numbers without adding significant noise/heat to the product. It would be interesting to see the sales statistics for Vortech and Tunze for the next few months.

Well I didn't see Dell tripping over themselves to fix the millions of Optiplex 625's (I think?) that had known motherboard issues. They fixed the ones within warranty period with refurbished boards with the same problem... I've dealt with several of these.

No refunds were issued, though I'm sure there was a lawsuit because of the whole "the repair was faulty" thing.

 

[tkeracer619]

Please keep lawsuit discussion out of this thread. That is between those who have issues and feel wronged, the company, and both sides lawyers. That is not the topic of this thread. If you want to get political please start your own thread. Thanks.

 

[rishma]

Sorry guys but you are all ridiculous. Before the article came out all the tunze fanboys raved about their powerheads. Now that the article is out everyone wants a handout because Tunze miscalculated their ratings. Are your corals all of a sudden mad because they are not getting enough flow? If the flow was such a issue why didnt anyone bring this up BEFORE the article was made? If these powerheads supposedly killed your corals why didnt you try to rectify the situation before it got worse? Why didn't you add more flow? I stare at my tank for hours on end. I KNOW just by looking at my tank if my corals are getting enough flow regardless of what the package on my powerhead says.

Tunze admitted they were wrong. My Gosh people, we are all human and make mistakes. Its how we make our mistakes right and fix the problem that make is who we are and if handled correctly, make us better. They are now trying to rectify the situation and make it right for their costumers and all everyone is doing now is kicking them while they are down.

This is the problem with America, everyone thinks everyone owes them something. No one takes responsibility for their own actions. It's not Tunze's fault your tank did not have enough flow, its YOURS for not judging correctly your systems needs. Take responsibility and quit placing blame. Now people are talking about suing them? Really? You guys do realize that when a company is sued and pays out on a lawsuit that that cost is eventually passed down to you, the consumer!! Insurance is a prime example. Every *****es about the cost of insurance but as soon as they have a claim they want to get paid out 200,300,400,500% more then what they put in because the big bad insurance company owes them and if they don't get what they want they hire a law firm to sue the company for millions and guess what, that cost goes right back to you the consumer.

Now if you brought your issue about the mis-advertised flow up with Tunze before the article then I applaud you for doing your research and knowing that something was not right, but those who are now complaining hold no water in their argument. Sorry.

Dont get me wrong, I agree that you should get what you paid for, you paid for a advertised GPH and now Tunze is working hard to make that right which is more then most companies due this day in age. We should all be applauding them, not kicking them while they are down.

Thank you for being a voice of reason. I am puzzled by many of the comments here. I have never seen an single thread where someone said their Tunze didn't put out as much flow as expected. I personally never looked at the GPH ratings of my tunze or ecotech pumps, I just bought the recommended ones for my tank size. I ended up staying with tunze and selling the ecotech pumps because I liked the tunze better. Personal preference. My corals never complained either way.

 

[djkms]

Please keep lawsuit discussion out of this thread. That is between those who have issues and feel wronged, the company, and both sides lawyers. That is not the topic of this thread. If you want to get political please start your own thread. Thanks.

My apologies, I have read way too many of these Tunze threads they are all meshing together in my head now. Sorry to disrupt.

 

[jcw]

And I've seen gorgeous tanks with Tunze pumps.

There's no magic gph for sps, lps, fish. Only suggestions/ranges.

You put in pumps you think will work. If you need more flow, you add or upgrade pumps. It's not an exact science. More trial and error.

I have tunzes in a 55. Added a second pump to improve flow. Now I have what I think is adequate flow not based on gph but my how my tank looks.

 

[James77]

You and James keep talking about this retrofit that WILL be coming, but the fact is that everything Roger keeps saying is "we expect," "should," etc. it may just never come.

Maybe Roger is saying that because it has only been a couple days since this story dropped? Maybe -GASP!- we should give Tunze a few weeks to meet up and decide how they are going to handle this. Roger is going to Germany, so it will be discussed then.

What I CAN go by is Tunzes past record on ANY issue that has come up....be it noisy 6105s or poor clamps on the nanostreams and anything in between. They have taken care of( meaning free, not the ridiculous comparison to a mechanic saying that and charging 800 bucks) their current customers on all occasions. This is a company that will upgrade older pumps to new ones at a heavy discount when the old, out of warranty ones die out. I have dealt with Roger several times when I was not happy with the 6105s...in ALL cases I was "taken care of"....with ZERO out of pocket cost to myself and no questions asked. I was never even asked for prrof of purchase.

That is the company we are dealing with here, and the service we are dealing with here in the US. I thinks it is sad that there are those that could not wait to slap Tunze with false advertisement claims without even giving them some reasonable time to deal with this on a global level....as if they would want an instantaneous changing of stock, boxes, and pumps worldwide.

Roger has stated Tunze will correct this problem, and I see no reason whatsoever that they will not follow through. They are forced to use "should" expect", etc because people are salivating to nitpick them to death over anything right now. Give them some time to figure out what they are going to do, and judge them afterwards. They have not even been given a chance yet.

Also, what happens if even after they produce the retrofit they still can not attain the advertised flow do they recall the pumps and refund everyone their money? The fact still remains, all packaging/materials with the incorrect flow numbers needs to be recalled and fixed or Tunze is simply continuing to sell their under-performing product under false pretenses.

Now we are speculating about scenarios that have not even happened yet? How about we cross that bridge when we get to it? Yes, all packaging on the larger pumps in incorrect right now. Again, I can hazard to guess they are wroking on some sort of solution to everyones concerns. Despite tkeracers assumption that they have known about this for a week or two, nobody outside of Tunze has any idea just how long they have known of it. Even if it was a month, this is on a global level, and it will take some time.

A similar thing happened with Hanna ALkalinity checker...the reagent was off and giving whacked out results. It took some mere hours to crucify the company before they could even come up with a rational solution. Guess what? They did, and "took care of" their current customers at ZERO CHARGE.

 

[jcw]

I wonder how this is different than when certain led lights don't measure up to advertising such as equivalent to mh lights or when the methodology of led v mh and t5 par measurements are questioned.

Where are the ones screaming for justice and lawsuits there?

 

[SkullV]

Maybe Roger is saying that because it has only been a couple days since this story dropped? Maybe -GASP!- we should give Tunze a few weeks to meet up and decide how they are going to handle this. Roger is going to Germany, so it will be discussed then.

What I CAN go by is Tunzes past record on ANY issue that has come up....be it noisy 6105s or poor clamps on the nanostreams and anything in between. They have taken care of( meaning free, not the ridiculous comparison to a mechanic saying that and charging 800 bucks) their current customers on all occasions. This is a company that will upgrade older pumps to new ones at a heavy discount when the old, out of warranty ones die out. I have dealt with Roger several times when I was not happy with the 6105s...in ALL cases I was "taken care of"....with ZERO out of pocket cost to myself and no questions asked. I was never even asked for prrof of purchase.

That is the company we are dealing with here, and the service we are dealing with here in the US. I thinks it is sad that there are those that could not wait to slap Tunze with false advertisement claims without even giving them some reasonable time to deal with this on a global level....as if they would want an instantaneous changing of stock, boxes, and pumps worldwide.

Roger has stated Tunze will correct this problem, and I see no reason whatsoever that they will not follow through. They are forced to use "should" expect", etc because people are salivating to nitpick them to death over anything right now. Give them some time to figure out what they are going to do, and judge them afterwards. They have not even been given a chance yet.



Now we are speculating about scenarios that have not even happened yet? How about we cross that bridge when we get to it? Yes, all packaging on the larger pumps in incorrect right now. Again, I can hazard to guess they are wroking on some sort of solution to everyones concerns. Despite tkeracers assumption that they have known about this for a week or two, nobody outside of Tunze has any idea just how long they have known of it. Even if it was a month, this is on a global level, and it will take some time.

A similar thing happened with Hanna ALkalinity checker...the reagent was off and giving whacked out results. It took some mere hours to crucify the company before they could even come up with a rational solution. Guess what? They did, and "took care of" their current customers at ZERO CHARGE.

I suppose this argument can go on forever.

I neither for or against Tunze, but from a consumer (and legal) standpoint Tunze should have already corrected the pump ratings on their website and issued a notice to vendors to pull their pumps until the correct GPH rating, and a notice about the impending retrofit can be affixed to the packaging.

Has anyone seen an official press release with the flow ratings of the smaller pumps based on the standards of this test? I would be interested to see an official word from Tunze about whether those flow ratings are correct or not.

 

[James77]

I suppose this argument can go on forever.

I neither for or against Tunze, but from a consumer (and legal) standpoint Tunze should have already corrected the pump ratings on their website and issued a notice to vendors to pull their pumps until the correct GPH rating, and a notice about the impending retrofit can be affixed to the packaging.
.

They are definitely needing to address the situation on every front. I just believe it is the fair thing to do to give them some time to deal with it logistically. Up until this article, not one single person has commented that the flow is not what it should be. It does not make it right or anything, but I really doubt the world is going to come to a crashing end if people continue to buy the pump. Again....it needs to be repeated a thousand times.....Tunze has acknowledged the problem, and has said they will correct it and take care of everyone. That will include thos that have purchased over the last few days. It might be a simple cover and prop mod,,,,maybe more, lets let them figure it out.

 

[jcw]

Tunze press release
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/tunze-issues-press-release

Has anyone seen an official press release with the flow ratings of the smaller pumps based on the standards of this test? I would be interested to see an official word from Tunze about whether those flow ratings are correct or not.

 

[SkullV]

They are definitely needing to address the situation on every front. I just believe it is the fair thing to do to give them some time to deal with it logistically. Up until this article, not one single person has commented that the flow is not what it should be. It does not make it right or anything, but I really doubt the world is going to come to a crashing end if people continue to buy the pump. Again....it needs to be repeated a thousand times.....Tunze has acknowledged the problem, and has said they will correct it and take care of everyone. That will include thos that have purchased over the last few days. It might be a simple cover and prop mod,,,,maybe more, lets let them figure it out.

My issue though is not with the people that purchased them over the last few days. It is that someone can still walk into a retail store that sells Tunze pumps and purchase a mislabeled pump.

Tunze press release
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/tunze-issues-press-release

Thanks!

 

[James77]

My issue though is not with the people that purchased them over the last few days. It is that someone can still walk into a retail store that sells Tunze pumps and purchase a mislabeled pump.

They can still do it......because it has been just a few days. Any company should be given at least some time to think up a solution before they are bashed. People are not being electrocuted....it is mislabled flow. But that mislabled flow will still be corrected by them, regardless of whether you bought the pump 3 years ago, or buy it right now. We should all take a deep breath and realize that we are talking about flow in an aquarium, not some life or death situation. Im curious to see what their solution will be and how long it will take them to implement it. But I am more than willing to give it more than a couple days.

Maybe pulling the pumps worlwide would accomplish nothing than delay the correction they are going to do. Roger has said 1-2 months....I imagine there will be an immediate shipment to all vendors to fit the retrofits. It makes alot more sense that way. Maybe vendors have received instruction already...who knows?

 

[tkeracer619]

You cannot realistically believe that you can accurately tell flow of a pump visually. You can tell that it is more or less flow (sometimes). You can tell it is on and off. But you cannot tell other then manufacturers claims what you are actually getting unless of course you have the Doppler-9000.

It has been said before but I will say it again. The only way anyone knew what they were getting was the numbers on the box. If you pay big bucks for something you expect to get what you pay for. That is not the case here. A lot of people paid big bucks and did not get what they paid for regardless of what anyone wants people to believe or how happy they were with the flow they got.

Is 3600gph out of a single pump enough for sps? It does not matter at all. You pay for 7900gph you will expect 7900gph. You find out you didn't get that amount of flow then well you get upset. On top of that you find out not by a newsletter or a posting on the manufacturers website but a test done by someone else after the company has been made aware of the issue, confirmed the issue, and supposedly already started on a fix. To me, that is the most important issue and the reason I titled this thread the way I did.

Tunze knew they didn't hit the stated numbers and they still have not updated anything pertaining to that. This isn't going to just blow over. It feels like getting dumped and finding out from some random guy on the street. Had they come out and stated. "We have been made aware of an error regarding rated flow with our current line of aquarium pumps. We are diligently working on a fix. Rest assured this problem will be resolved for all customers in a timely manner." things would be a lot different. Instead we are finding out from a 3rd party and Tunze is not speaking definitively. I understand that this is not an easy situation for them, I understand people are kicking them while they are down, I however do not have pity because they brought this on themselves. I am however lucky because the pump I purchased is still within the return policy. Most do not have that luxury and are forced to rely on the company. Luckily Tunze has a good track record for correcting issues but this is a different animal and as I have said twice I am eager to see how this all plays out. It might not be in Tunzes best interest but it certainly is in ours (the consumer).

 

[flyhigh123]

if i bought a car that said it was going to give me 30 miles to the gallon, i would expect it to give me 30 and not 20(or 15)...

i doubt car manufactures can get away with it and i'm sure if something like that happened, there would be a recall or a class action... just saying..

 

[SkullV]

if i bought a car that said it was going to give me 30 miles to the gallon, i would expect it to give me 30 and not 20(or 15)...

i doubt car manufactures can get away with it and i'm sure if something like that happened, there would be a recall or a class action... just saying..

MPG is really a poor comparison to make here because it is something that is driver dependent. If you have a "heavy foot" you will get less MPG. With these pumps nothing is dependent on the operator.