Tunze Lawsuit?

[dahenley]

I was looking at reef-builders and they show a potential legal action on testing results...... but im not sure if they filed this before or after your counter to the current testings.

i just wanted to give a heads up and see what you and other tunze people thought?
(i stand behind the pumps.... but with people now a days looking for millions of dollars for trivial things..... i would hate to see a Fantastic company suffer or worse.....)

http://************.com/2011/08/26/tunze-aquarientechnik-gmbh-investigated-law-firm/#more-46988

 

[dahenley]

oh, just add reef builders in the dotted space.... i forgot that you cant post that name here.

 

[phil519]

This just reinforces my rather negative outlook towards the ambulance chasers who work in the legal field.

 

[ziyaadb]

load of nonsense, what next the skimmer manufacturers for over rating their skimmers?
I hope common sense prevails and this suit gets thrown out

 

[Jocko]

The Lewis Firm is said to have "œextensive experience in the investigation and prosecution of fraud and consumer fraud claims."

LOL. How noble of them.

Tunze is the old guy on the block. I find the explanation of "misguided faith in theoretical calculations" and "Up until the last couple of years, it would have been prohibitively expensive to buy or rent the kind of equipment necessary to measure the flow as performed in this study" to be perfectly believable. Tunze has always proven to be reliable and devoted to their customers. And the performance and reliability have always been excellent in real-world scenarios. Even if the gph isn't quite what we might have thought it was, the pumps do what we bought them to do: keep our livestock happy.

I think the law firm should go suck it. But I think we should thank Sandford, Straka and Joshi for doing the study. Annoying for Tunze in the short term? Yes. But ultimately this will push them to create even better products. And in the long run that will be great for everyone.

 

[dahenley]

Just curious, because I have no legal experience or knowledge, but if tunze provides their upgrades, will this even hold up in court? Since they are rectifying things, and have experimented with a different shroud and #30 jumper and all?
I'm a poor college student and a few months ago picked up some brown old school 6100's and they are amazing compared to any pump I have used (including the mp40es) I would hate for tunze to suffer due to things like this.

 

[badazztealcobra]

Maybe Tunze will just end up eating the cost of the modifications and be completely done and away from this ???

Unfortunately, that will likely translate into higher prices on new products. :sad:

 

[mikearoni]

i read this on reef builders this morning as well. Ive never had Tunze pump but Ive heard alot of positive feedback about the quality and performance of Tunze pumps. Yet, I dont feel sorry for Tunze. Im not one to nit pick about the exact output gph that Tunze or any pump provides. As long as it has great performance and reliability. But, honestly, you shouldnt advertise something if it isnt true.

 

[dahenley]

i read this on reef builders this morning as well. Ive never had Tunze pump but Ive heard alot of positive feedback about the quality and performance of Tunze pumps. Yet, I dont feel sorry for Tunze. Im not one to nit pick about the exact output gph that Tunze or any pump provides. As long as it has great performance and reliability. But, honestly, you shouldnt advertise something if it isnt true.

actually, Tunze come up with their figures by using math/engineers/ and a flow test. The article that was posted was newer technology that they didnt have access to, and so it wasnt false at the time. but now, newer technology showed a variance in numbers....

then, Tunze did a different test which would explain some variance in pumps and flow, but actually out performs the "better pumps"

:headwallblue::headwallblue::headwallblue:
some of the info is confusing, but as a Tunze/Vortech/Maxijet/Korella owner.... i would have to say that Tunze does stand above many of the others mentioned.

 

[Allmost]

some of the info is confusing, but as a tunze/vortech/maxijet/korella owner.... I would have to say that tunze does stand above many of the others mentioned.

y?

 

[dahenley]

flow/velocity/chaos/momentum/inertia...

(im a picture guy, and like the Tunze study with the dye. it made more since and was visually appealing)

and why i prefer the tunze, is because of linear flow/volume as well as less noise. (also, less replacing of parts....)
but i do have the real-estate to sacrifice an extra inch for a pump

 

[SPS_D_REEF]

Just to let you know I have 2 6105, I was lied to. Now tunze said I have to pay more to get what I pay for?
"Just not right" if you ask me sorry.

 

[Mindflux]

Just to let you know I have 2 6105, I was lied to. Now tunze said I have to pay more to get what I pay for?
"Just not right" if you ask me sorry.

No, Tunze said they tested and found the numbers to be pretty close to what they originally thought (within 10% of what they specified on the boxes). If you "WANT MORE" (up to 900GPH on the 6105) you can buy the 24v jumper ($3 dollars), if you want "wider", you can buy the 6205 shroud. The latter options mean you choose to believe the EcoTech tests are/were more accurate, despite Tunze finding info that the Sontech doppler has it's own issues with rating pumps. (Which was then backed up by a Hydrologist that works in with these units regularly.. that was in another thread)

In short, if you don't want to believe the numbers are true.. buy the jumper. Otherwise... enjoy.

 

[Allmost]

flow/velocity/chaos/momentum/inertia...

(im a picture guy, and like the Tunze study with the dye. it made more since and was visually appealing)

and why i prefer the tunze, is because of linear flow/volume as well as less noise. (also, less replacing of parts....)
but i do have the real-estate to sacrifice an extra inch for a pump

did you know random flow increases mass transfer by 30% ?

 

[Allmost]

No, Tunze said they tested and found the numbers to be pretty close to what they originally thought (within 10% of what they specified on the boxes). If you "WANT MORE" (up to 900GPH on the 6105) you can buy the 24v jumper ($3 dollars), if you want "wider", you can buy the 6205 shroud. The latter options mean you choose to believe the EcoTech tests are/were more accurate, despite Tunze finding info that the Sontech doppler has it's own issues with rating pumps. (Which was then backed up by a Hydrologist that works in with these units regularly.. that was in another thread)

In short, if you don't want to believe the numbers are true.. buy the jumper. Otherwise... enjoy.

but buying the jumper, and larger housing, means the pump will be bigger, and consume more power, and make more noise which takes away the point of having a high end/expensive pump !

when I bought mine, I was impressed ! no noise, low V, small housing, HOW CAN THEY DO IT ? and I was happy that own the latest in technology, just to find out later, that I was .....lied to ?

 

[Mindflux]

but buying the jumper, and larger housing, means the pump will be bigger, and consume more power, and make more noise which takes away the point of having a high end/expensive pump !

when I bought mine, I was impressed ! no noise, low V, small housing, HOW CAN THEY DO IT ? and I was happy that own the latest in technology, just to find out later, that I was .....lied to ?

According to Roger even at 24v it's quieter than the comparable MP40. So I think the noise thing is moot if you had planned to 'jump ship' to an MP40 over the issue. If you didn't plan to jump ship and have an issue with the noise I'm not sure what can be done. I don't think Tunze advertised that it would run below "50db" on their box or in their literature.

If you are impressed or were impressed what's the problem? You were happy about the pump, none of your corals or fish were dying from 'supposedly' miss-spec'd gear. People are 'mad' and looking for a hand out.

It's no different than buying a Ferrari and thinking it's the fastest thing you've ever driven and then next week you read about a new Maserati that's even faster. Aren't you still happy with the car?

 

[Allmost]

According to Roger even at 24v it's quieter than the comparable MP40. So I think the noise thing is moot if you had planned to 'jump ship' to an MP40 over the issue. If you didn't plan to jump ship and have an issue with the noise I'm not sure what can be done. I don't think Tunze advertised that it would run below "50db" on their box or in their literature.

If you are impressed or were impressed what's the problem? You were happy about the pump, none of your corals or fish were dying from 'supposedly' miss-spec'd gear. People are 'mad' and looking for a hand out.

It's no different than buying a Ferrari and thinking it's the fastest thing you've ever driven and then next week you read about a new Maserati that's even faster. Aren't you still happy with the car?

you ar simply wrong.

if I buy a Ferrari, and am told it has 300 HP, I have no way of testing it, I AM AN END USER ! but if dogde decides to test it and find out it has only 200HP, Id be very mad for being lied to.

I am in biomedical Eng. Field. the company testing my products, is GE, my compactor. why ? cause they know the corners I could have cut ! they know the ISsues and complications iwth designing a biomed board. and if my specs were not in line with tests, Id loose my freedom !

I understand human life, is not comparable to fishes life, but still ! a 0.0000001 nano v difference, wont kill a human, and a 40% less flow wont kill fish, but the point is, a lie is a lie

as I stated earlier, what impressed me, was the point that tunze, could fit such high flow in such 1. small housing, 2. low V and 3. no noise ! but if now noise is increasing, V is incresing, and housing is made bigger, tunze is not dfoing anything special ! koralia could do it too !

PS. I do not compare 6105 and MP40, as they are different things, IMHO

 

[Mindflux]

There is standardized testing for horse power on a vehicle. There is not for water flow in the way we use it. So how can you trust EcoTech over Tunze or vice versa until there's quantifiable proof one or the other is wrong?

 

[Allmost]

There is standardized testing for horse power on a vehicle. There is not for water flow in the way we use it. So how can you trust EcoTech over Tunze or vice versa until there's quantifiable proof one or the other is wrong?

it is simply not Ecotech Vs. Tunze,

its power heads Vs. Tunze ! as Koralia, and MJ and all others did good on the testing, except tunze.

either everyone is wrong, and tunze is right, in which case I Want to see testing done on all pumps. or simply tunze is wrong and should stand up behind their products, and the fact that they decided to not make it public when they made the housing for 6105 smaller. and reduced the noise by lowering V and therefore flow as rogers said, the bag test and theoratical ...was done with old housing and V, and then after, they decided to make it smaller and less noisy ...

 

[OceanAV]

Just to clarify: the housing was not changed. The size of the pump is the same as the original. Jumper and impeller/propeller were changed in order to make pump quiet.