tunze vs. icecap

[zapata41]

so whats tunzes' answer to the new icecap powerhead in both price and competition. just on the fence here and need a push one way or the other

TIm

 

[rvitko]

It isn't made by Icecap, it is a new start up. Basically you can see our reputation. Everything I have seen indicates a starting price of $300. I wouldn't pay the same money for a new start up product. As for what we are doing, time will tell.

 

[wade]

Actually, it is not a startup company, it is being produced by EcoTech Marine and distributed by IceCap. (If you do a quick search in these forums, you will see many happy remarks regarding their other equipment - which has been on the market for 4+ years.)

I personally use a Tunze right now, but am in line for one of the beta test version of the new vortech pump. The technology is a bit on the new side, no doubt, but it highly surpasses current methods in a few ways.

I'm curious to see what Tunze has in process? Any hints?

 

[crash519]

When they figure out how to point them in directions other than straight across the tank, I might be in the market. Other than that, it's nothing more than a magnet. It works on the exact same principles as a magnetic stirrer.

 

[rvitko]

4 yrs vs 45 yrs, not to mention 4 yrs of products which are non electrical, pump building and acrylic tube building are two very different things.

The flow direction cannot be controlled, and their were obvious issues to overcome in engineering. The inside portion of their pump was virtually the size of our entire pump. For the same money, outside of owning the latest gadget why?

 

[zapata41]

good point about the size, i want a tunze stream but heard they are big, not as large as my seio 2600 that i no longer have due to size but big. i like the size of the seio 620 & 820 so if a 6000 or 6100 stream is the same size them i am sold

Tim

 

[rvitko]

They are bigger than the small Seios but I think the Seio mount makes them stick out almost as far in the tank.

 

[zapata41]

now how are they for ca build up, i havent cleaned my seios in over 6mo and they start and stop throughout the day via a timer, yet at the same time i have a quite one return pump that has to be cleaned monthly or else it wont restart after power outage due to ca build up. i maintain high levels with a ca reactor and dont want the streams to have to be cleaned all the time.

Tim

 

[rvitko]

The Streams will fall somewhere in between, while they run cooler than Seios- they use less power compared to the flow volume. The tolerances are very tight and it doesn't take much build up to cause the pump to lock up. I would clean them every few months.

 

[wade]

...The inside portion of their pump was virtually the size of our entire pump. For the same money, outside of owning the latest gadget why?

For your (repeated) reference... I present the following information:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=672444&perpage=25&pagenumber=13

The size references you give are wholly incorrect. I realize you are "chatting" about a possible competitor, but please try to stick to the facts.

I held one of these in my hands at the MACNA meeting and it is barely larger than the prop housing on the stream, much less the whole body.

As to the engineering issues, that puppy was hot the first day, but they discovered and fixed the problem by the second day. Interesting thing about it though, being external to the tank, was that the heat did not transfer into the tank at all.

Personally, I think its the next wave of safety and performance in the aquarium hobby, not a fad. That said, I am still awaiting the beta version to see for myself.

 

[rvitko]

I was at MACNA and I have seen the pump, it is bigger than the screen to be fair it is about the size of the pump less the screen.

The heat is the issue to overcome- first glass conducts heat, otherwise pyrex wouldn't be used in labs and as cookware. I don't buy the no heat. Second, it made alot of heat, alot more than the quoted energy consumption should have produced. Their is no physical way that you can convey energy through a 1/2" barrier without substantial losses in efficiency. I think time will prove our way is better.

 

[wade]

You are correct, it was very hot. As I recall, they discovered that the heat was due to a faulty rubber gasket rubbing against the moving parts of the pump body (hence the reduced or lack of heat the second day).

However, that same gasket that caused problems is one heck of an insulator. And since the remainder of the body is external, the heat dissipates into the air. There is no direct connection between metal and glass and water so transfer of heat energy would be very low. And, stretching here, I think it had vents on the body for dissipation/cooling purposes?

Thanks for the idea though. I'll take my current Stream and the beta model to the lab and measure temperature change per time in a small volume of water while they are operating full out. Excellent comparison point...

 

[rvitko]

I would also be curious to see a real watt meter reading. With real glass thicknesses, what does it use at 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4".

 

[zapata41]

i beleive the pump can only work on 3/4" thickness so if you have thinner glass then the give you spacers to use to get to the 3/4" mark

 

[rvitko]

I have done a lot of thinking about this thread and first I want to acknowledge that they do have a good idea. It is not a new idea though, in fact we had tried similar things in the past but could not get it to work without a big cost in energy efficiency which from day one has been one of our foundations in product development. It appears they have solved this hurdle. I have read the rather boisterous comments of the new guys on the block and frankly, I have no interest in being a politician, I am not here to be torn to shreds or to do the same to anyone else. What I have expressed above is my opinion, I personally would not be attracted to this idea because it is new, I am a very traditional person who stays with proven ideas. I don't feel the advantages are great enough, our pumps add a marginal amount of heat to the aquarium, almost negligible, keep in mind our 45w 6100 is using at least 10 of those watts outside the aquarium at full power. I also think the pump design they have is really not that much smaller, it is about 2/3rds our pump size although our magnet holders add to that. The safety issue is moot, our electronic Streams use low voltage and we have double insulated cords, I can say in all my years with Tunze I have never heard of one fire or electrocution. I also know our service is very good, and I know IceCaps service is also exemplary. I think above I have outlined the facts in a fair way. I can also say we never rest on our laurels, we do have some stellar ideas that are soon to be released, we are a full line company and we will continue to be one of the leading innovators in this industry. I would like to thank everyone who has supported us over the years and leave this thread be. Time will tell.....

 

[zapata41]

rvitko, thanks for your replies, i was not trying to start a knife fight between two companys, just trying to see what tunze has to offer with the new products from other companies. with that said, i am about 99% sure i am gonna get a pair of streams in a few months when i can afford them.

Tim

 

[wade]

Well put. All in all, I am very curious about any new developments and would be just as happy to see if Tunze releases something new (related or not).

Advancement of aquaculture is the only reason I stay in this hobby. The hobby of keeping reef tanks is light years ahead of the academic/scientific side of the equation and advancements that allow us to maintain healthier stock are the foundation of it all.

 

[marinelife]

I can not get over the idea of having part of the pump on the outside, to me that would just look ugly

 

[insanereef]

i think that for ppl who dont have built in tanks tunze is the only way.

if my tank was sitting in the middle of a room ( or anywhere with its sides exposed) i dont think id want a big black box and a wire hanging on the side of the tank. ugly and we all know lil children will just have to touch it

 

[marinelife]

right agreed, now if my tank was behind a wall then I would think about it