um....what is going on in my tank....nems question

[Up2nogood]

Hi all, I love your forum it is very informative but after much looking i am still scratching my head over my recent predicament.

I had purchased two LTA several months back and unfortuanetly, one passed away and totally wiped out my tank. The survivors of this incident were my curly cue anemone, some snails, and a crab (i think.....he is hard to find ). Anyway this was obviously a hard learned lesson and after many water changes and months of being fallow we began to restock our tank. We bought a few damsels and just couldn't resist getting an anemone.
We decided on two condys......they took real well and our tomato clown was hosting one which was a surprise but was awesome. So we bought two more clowns (clarkiis) in hopes of them hosting the other condy, which they did........the only problem we incurred was a little bulling from the tomato, but he finally laid off and things were fine.

I woke up this morning.........and again all my fish were dead, cept for one damsel fish. I am not sure what happened as the three anemones are fine.....none are dead, one is showing signs of stress, but the other two are fine. Ph, ammonia, nitrates and salinity are all within normal ranges. The tank is a 50gallon with live rock with a sand bed and crushed coral. Does anyone know what could have caused the fish to die? They were fine last night and we were so happy to have our tank re-established.........nothing sadder then an empty aquarium :sad2:, and I believe we took the right measures in doing so. We purchased the anemones before any other fish then the damsels just to prevent this sort of thing from happening again........so i don't know what happened or what i can do to keep it from happening again. It is very distressing as one could imagine, especially since this time i have NO idea what caused the predicament...........any ideas? Thanks so much in advance,
Donna

 

[davocean]

Well,
[welcome]

You're in the right place and need to do a bit more reading on keeping such animals.
First off those clowns are very aggressive, and territorial, one pair only per tank or they will kill each other.
The condy's are not considered a host nem, they pack a much stronger sting, and can even kill clowns.
Damsels are also very aggro, and can kill other fish.
You may want to post all specs, gear, params w/ actual numbers(not just fine) time running on that tank, amount of live rock, lights, filtration, everything.
Crushed coral is not the best substrate either just FYI, nitrate sink.

 

[bradleym]

First, I'm SO sorry to hear about your bad luck.

Second, welcome to RC!

My 2 thoughts, albeit unlikely, are electric short shocking the tank, and mystery hitchhiker in your rocks, like a mantis shrimp or something. I hope you get it sorted out, and please let us know when you find out what it is.

 

[Up2nogood]

nitrate no2 and no3 0, ammonia 0, pH 7.8, salinity 1.023......lights 39 and 35 t5 high outputs, skimmer, and filstar xp3 with powerhead........the temp is running alittle high at 86 degrees. There is approximately 50lbs of live rock. Before we bought new fish for the tank and the anemones we put in live sand so half the tank is crushed coral and the other is sand at a 4inch depth. The survivors of the first tank crash were the curly cue and some snails, and a crab. After the water changes and letting the tank set for a few months we bought three one inch damsels. They did fine so we purchased the two condys. After we were sure they were in good health we added a tomoto clown, and a dragon wrasse. The last two to be added were the clarkiis, which were a pair and at first were harrassed by the tomato but after a day or so they were fine. When the tomato started hosting the condy he appeared very happy and did not leave him unless he was getting food (and then again that first day with the two clarkiis). We were surprised the tomato starting hosting the condy as we did not purchase him to do so and were aware that condys are not usually hosted. It just seemed like everything settled in fine and there was a good general routine with feeding, resting, ect. so it was a shock to wake up to this situation as it is now..........?

 

[Up2nogood]

Thanks for the welcome......I have been keeping an eye on the tank all day.........still trying to figure out the situation........I did check all the electrics.....just to make sure nothing was malfunctioning.......am not sure why the temperature rose like that, but that is the only thing out of the norm. We usually keep it in the low 80's.

 

[Mabyboi]

Out of a personal opinion, I would say to keep the temperature of the tank between 75-80 and the salinity around 1.026, I've found my coral and anemones do better around there

 

[jbowen]

Hi Donna,
Can you give us a timeline? How quickly were you adding the fish?

 

[hypnoj]

following.

 

[Up2nogood]

The fish were introduced to the tank approximately over a month.....in this order......first the three one inch damsels, second the two condy anemones, third the tomato clown and dragon wrasse, and lastly the two clarkiis. About six this evening the two anemones both started behaving strangely......they both left their respective places and were free floating around the tank. Now they are just kindof hovering so I am afraid they both will die as well. One definately has lost some zooxanthellae as he is paler this evening. So I guess the only other thing I could think of is it possible that a bacteria or parasite is invading the aquarium and killing everything off? I have tried to find some info on this but to no avail. I know the fish did not have ick or velvet......so still quite dumbfounded here. Just wondering, do anemones ever release toxins directly into the tank just from stress? I am grasping at straws here.......I just don't know what caused all this ruckus.

 

[m758b033]

Do you have a reading for PO4 or alk?

 

[Up2nogood]

no the only alkaline related test I did was pH and it was 7.8, a bit low.

 

[hypnoj]

the PO4 reading isn't that important right now, but the alk reading is extremely important. I think it was more then likely multiple factors that wiped the tank. More then likely a combination of low alk, low pH, and high temperatures. Anemone's go toxic to the tank when they die. Just the fact that the anemone's are wandering around the tank points to the fact that some parameters aren't right. Anemone's have very few bacterial or parasitic problems, so my guess is incorrect water parameters. Most seasoned reefers will agree that most anemone's should not be kept in new tanks. Most reefers will recommend having a tank up and running for close to a year before adding anemone's.

 

[Up2nogood]

The tank isn't newly established it is a couple years in......I only starting having toubles after the first LTA died a few months back. I definately will get a alk test asap.

 

[davocean]

There are so many possibilities it's very much a shot in the dark to call out what may have gone wrong other than the possibilities already listed.
My best advice is to chill out for a spell, get your salinity up a touch to 1.025-1.026, bump your PH a touch as it's a tad low, get your temp down to 78-80, and begin asking questions here before doing anything.
Don't keep more than one pair of clowns in a normal size tank, and if it were me I probably would lose the condy's, but some people do keep them.

 

[Up2nogood]

Curiously enough I just quarantined the condys and my dragon wrasse came to back to life.............he is swimming albeit a little off, but at least he is not deceased as previously thought. So now with him I have the damsel, the crabs, snails, and my curly cue nem. The curly cue lived through the death of the LTA and this ordeal do you think he could be part of my current situation?

 

[Up2nogood]

Todays update.......Thanks so much to all who responded and gave advice. Things are going much better today although I did lose the Condys. I feel a bit sheepish as I have kept various types of tanks over the years and should have realized what was occurring sooner. I had reported the high tank temperature and adjusted it. I figured the temp rise was due to unusually warm weather......we are up here in North Dakota.......temps this year have been amazing.......but very unusual. Anyway it appears the heater was malfunctioning as it kept turning on even though we had it turned almost off. We have since unplugged it and the temp is dropping, although slowly. I have no idea how warm it got since our current thermometer only goes up to 86 degrees.......(slaps forehead.....duh). The remaining inhabitants of the tank are doing well including the wrasse which was on death's door......I was going to remove him from the tank, but am sure glad I didn't!! Anyway, sometimes it is just obscure things like that to cause all kinds of havoc.........Thanks so much for the help, it was greatly appreciated. As for future plans.............we are just going to rest with what we have and be thankful!!

 

[davocean]

Well, at least you most likely solved your issue.
Heater failure is pretty common.
They have some w/ a smart chip in the controller that is supposed to keep them from sticking in the on position, or best really is to have a controller that safegaurds a number of things.