Unsuccessful with SPS corals. :(

[DeepThought]

I had a little 20g tank that I wanted to make SPS dominated, but the frags browned out and died. I said, you know, that little 20g might have had too unstable of water parameters... so I bought a 75g tank and set it up. I bought all the best that I could afford,... a way oversized reef octopus diablo skimmer, a reef octopus calcium reactor, ATO system, Apex Jr. controller and other stuff. I have no idea what I am doing wrong.

Current water parameters:

temp: 81.6 (probably won't come down much, will fluctuate 3*F over the course of the day.
Salinity: 1.025
pH: 8.2
Nitrate: 5ppm
phosphate: no test kit.
Calcium: 460ppm
Alkalinity: 3.5mEQ/L
Magnesium: 1350ppm

That's all the test that I have available to me. I was hoping not to have to get a Hanna Phosphate checker, but that's probably something on down the road that I'll have to invest in.

I know SPS corals brown out due to high phosphate levels,... could it also happen with not enough light? I only have a 4 bulb T5HO system over my tank. I'm upgrading this Summer to a ReefBreeders Photon48. Would that upgrade give me a better chance of keeping SPS corals alive, growing, and thriving?

 

[ssscuz]

More light will help with keeping them longer and colouring up.
As for browning and dying I would say its been stability and water chemistry. You need to invest in some sort of phosphate test. You might have very high phosphate causing the issues

 

[DeepThought]

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I have a refugium that is growing pretty good amounts of Caulerpa racemosa. I feed flake foods, since I never found a "gormet" fish food that I could feed in controlled amounts. I have also never fed phytoplankton to my tank at all, but I have been successful keeping soft corals.

I am slowly switching from a soft coral tank to an SPS dominated tank. The only SPS coral that is doing well is a Montipora capricornis.

 

[DeepThought]

Since it is Summer, my tank has been running at about 80*F,... I don't want to have to run my A/C very cold while I am gone at work... that's wasted electricity. Would it be possible to add a couple of fans over the tank to get the temp down? Is 80*F a death sentence for most SPS corals??

 

[DeepThought]

I just noticed a little algae growing on a couple of powerheads and the return pipe. I guess my phosphate levels are getting a little high.

I have a phosphate reactor, but it leaks at the seal. I guess I should get that fixed and start running some GFO again. I have also never run a carbon pillow... and only do water changes once every month or two.

I'm thinking about setting up a water change system beside the tank. a 10g ATO reservoir and then a 10g tank to mix saltwater up. I guess if I can get the water change system set up I am more likely to do water changes. It's just hard finding any room since I have a 15 month old daughter.

 

[Grabloids]

Just a thought here, have you tried testing for TDS on your RODI water?

 

[akitareefer]

You can definitely keep the tank down a couple degrees with fans. Just make sure your topping off to make up for evaporation.

Its gotten to the point where I a/c the house just for the tanks.... lol I know where your coming from.

The Hanna phos meters are pretty cheap and easy to use. You can also bring a sample into the LFS if your worried.

I'd say stay away from the hard sps until you have alk, calc, mag, phos, and pH tests. Chances are you'll want to dose and I wouldn't go without the tests (you will go to work all day worried about corals). If you don't dose you'll need to keep up with the water changes.

Lastly I killed many sps. Some of my downfalls have been not keeping parameters and not enough flow.

 

[akitareefer]

And in reference to 80° tank temp. My tanks have already hit 84 and been fine. Its definitely not good. The AC is now on in the day to keep tanks under 80

 

[DeepThought]

Just a thought here, have you tried testing for TDS on your RODI water?

Yes, I have a TDS meter and it is reading ZERO TDS.

You can definitely keep the tank down a couple degrees with fans. Just make sure your topping off to make up for evaporation.

Its gotten to the point where I a/c the house just for the tanks.... lol I know where your coming from.

The Hanna phos meters are pretty cheap and easy to use. You can also bring a sample into the LFS if your worried.

I'd say stay away from the hard sps until you have alk, calc, mag, phos, and pH tests. Chances are you'll want to dose and I wouldn't go without the tests (you will go to work all day worried about corals). If you don't dose you'll need to keep up with the water changes.

Lastly I killed many sps. Some of my downfalls have been not keeping parameters and not enough flow.

My LFS only uses API test kits. I don't trust their accuracy. I use Seachem brand titration style test kits for calcium, alkalinity and magnesium, so I trust their results a little more then others. My parameters are all pretty much in check except for my temp. I'm about to set my heater to 80*F so there will be much more stability. It won't go down to 78 during the night and 82 during the day.

I'll add a couple of fans to the tank, or possibly just keep the overhead fan on to try to increase evap that way. We will have to see how that goes.

And in reference to 80° tank temp. My tanks have already hit 84 and been fine. Its definitely not good. The AC is now on in the day to keep tanks under 80

Yeah, it always seems like a fight to keep the tanks temp down in the Summer months, especially in the Deep South.


Any other ideas???? I've killed a few frags already. I'm just ready to see a few more do really well,... like I have seen in other peoples tanks.

 

[leeweber85]

That's a pretty big fluctuation in temp. Healthy corals can handle temp swings a few times, but if it's consistently fluctuating every day that much you will need to find a way to stabalize it. If you had a controller you could hook up your fans, heater, and lights to it and easily keep it within .5 degree difference.

You also mentioned switching from soft corals to SPS. What all do you have in the tank for corals? SPS does best when kept in an SPS only tank. If you have leathers and other soft corals it's important to run carbon (& replace often) to clean up the toxins/coral warfare going on in the water.

 

[franklypre]

Get a good fan, pull your heater if you run one, feed your fish less food more often(sinking pellets may help I use Elos). GFO is good but I prefer Seachem phosgaurd and purigen as it gives me the ability to pull either N or P and seems to be easier on the corals, I don't use a reactor just some media in a cheap filter bag. Wait until the LEDs get there, I assure you SPS will grow under Reefbreeders fixtures. Do you have large amounts of detritus, I use a turkey baster a few times a week to blow the rocks off(it feeds the coral and allows the filter sock to do it's job. Only other curiousity/concern is double checking your salinity with another measuring device.

 

[leeweber85]

Also... What is the source of the corals you are adding and what types? I wouldn't even try wild or maricultured collected. Go with ones that are proven to do well in captivity that you get as a frag from another local hobbyist. Start with the easier things like:

montipora capricornis
montipora digitata
birdsnest
pocipora
Milipora
green slimer (Acro)

 

[DeepThought]

Thank you for posting Lee,

I agree, it is a pretty big temp fluctuation. I have an apex Jr. controller and I am using it for my lights, heater, and one powerhead currently. Once I switch over to LEDs, two slots will become available. I think by increasing my heater temp, my tank should only fluctuate by about 1*F at max during the day. It usually doesn't ever go over 81.6 and if I set my heater for lets say 81*F, then it shouldn't fluctuate that bad, or is my thinking wrong?

I'm not sure if it's just my temp or my water flow, water quality and lighting all rolled into one. If I upgrade to LEDs from a 4 bulb T5HO light, I should have a pretty good increase in PAR then. Could that be part of the problem, is not enough PAR for most SPS corals?

As far as my water quality goes, you have the parameters posted already. I would like to keep running my refugium, but I am thinking of downgrading my skimmer to something that is only "plus one" on my system, rather then double my volume.... if you know what I mean.

I haven't found anything rusting, corroding, or otherwise putting bad chemicals in my tank yet. I know one thing though, I am very unhappy with my current 20g Long sump that I have and I am looking to set it up differently this go-round.

 

[DeepThought]

Get a good fan, pull your heater if you run one, feed your fish less food more often(sinking pellets may help I use Elos). GFO is good but I prefer Seachem phosgaurd and purigen as it gives me the ability to pull either N or P and seems to be easier on the corals, I don't use a reactor just some media in a cheap filter bag. Wait until the LEDs get there, I assure you SPS will grow under Reefbreeders fixtures. Do you have large amounts of detritus, I use a turkey baster a few times a week to blow the rocks off(it feeds the coral and allows the filter sock to do it's job. Only other curiousity/concern is double checking your salinity with another measuring device.

Sounds good, I'll have to try those products. I have plenty of polyfiber quilting pad stuff that I can wrap it in. I have a lot of detritus build up in the sump - and I really do want to try to get some of it out, but I haven't had any good ideas of how to get it out of the sump.

My oversized skimmer isn't pulling anything out of the water - and is putting more microbubbles in the water then necessary, so I just turned the whole thing off about a month ago. I would really like to downsize pretty soon to something that is only plus one for my tank. I do baste off my rocks pretty regularly. My concern also is the sandbed - I have heard that there is a lot of nutrients that build up over time in the sandbed. Also, is feeding phytoplankton a good thing to do in an SPS reef,... since is stimulates the growth of zooplankton?

Also... What is the source of the corals you are adding and what types? I wouldn't even try wild or maricultured collected. Go with ones that are proven to do well in captivity that you get as a frag from another local hobbyist. Start with the easier things like:

montipora capricornis
montipora digitata
birdsnest
pocipora
Milipora
green slimer (Acro)

Some of those are things that I have tried and that have died. X( Some of the frags I have no idea where the source is. They are cheap $12 frags that I buy at my LFS that look brown to begin with, almost. The LFS has them under an LED fixture which is only white and blue, so they might look neat under that light and then bland under my own.

I plan on putting in an order with Harry - I know he is a fellow hobbyist who has really nice frags and a great reputation... So, I'll order from him also pretty soon, I just need to know what steps I need to take to get my tank "SPS ready" for another batch.

I have one Koralia 5 and two koralia 3's with a mag 9.5 return pump. Nothing really special. They are placed correctly, to my knowledge. My tank is a peninsula tank. I'm not currently running carbon in the system.

 

[karsseboom]

The first thing I would look into is the lighting. I would try and find a nice tek elite t5 fixture with around at least 6-8 bulbs or some radiums. That should change the direction of your tank in a big way.

 

[DeepThought]

Thank you for posting karsseboom!

I'm going to be updating my lighting here in a few short weeks, I hope... to a ReefBreeders Photon 48. I've heard great reviews for it and would like to try out LED lighting to decrease my electric bill and possibly give my corals better PAR.

It's not just the lighting though, is it? Do you think that I am "just getting by" with my powerheads... one K5 and two K3's? Do you think that the powerhead needs to be upgraded as well? I am pretty clueless when it comes to an SPS dominated reef tank.

 

[karsseboom]

Thank you for posting karsseboom!

I'm going to be updating my lighting here in a few short weeks, I hope... to a ReefBreeders Photon 48. I've heard great reviews for it and would like to try out LED lighting to decrease my electric bill and possibly give my corals better PAR.

It's not just the lighting though, is it? Do you think that I am "just getting by" with my powerheads... one K5 and two K3's? Do you think that the powerhead needs to be upgraded as well? I am pretty clueless when it comes to an SPS dominated reef tank.

I think your lighting is the biggest issue your having regarding color. Your flow is fine and if you dkh is stable everything should be good. If I were in your situation I would really look into a tek elite t5 fixture, t5 produce really nice colors is Sps. I also like 400w radiums but the electricity is a bit much. Reefbreeders are good lighting fixtures but I think it's easier to just slap a nice t5 fixture over the tanks and be confident your lighting is a 100%

 

[DeepThought]

I think your lighting is the biggest issue your having regarding color. Your flow is fine and if you dkh is stable everything should be good. If I were in your situation I would really look into a tek elite t5 fixture, t5 produce really nice colors is Sps. I also like 400w radiums but the electricity is a bit much. Reefbreeders are good lighting fixtures but I think it's easier to just slap a nice t5 fixture over the tanks and be confident your lighting is a 100%

Thank you for your response.

Alright, so my lights are the big issue - my parameters don't really shift a whole lot. I test weekly and dose weekly. I pretty much have a full understanding of water chemistry.

I have had plenty of T5 fixtures in the past, and I have had plenty of metal halides in the past - and I know they both work pretty well. However, I'm ready to take a leap of faith into LEDs. Like you said, electric use is a big issue right now, and if using LEDs causes me not to have to use fans to keep my tank cool, then so be it.

I have had some pretty good looking corals under T5's also over the years... and I completely agree with you, that T5's can make some corals look really good, but I'm just ready to upgrade to LEDs and test them out like everyone else is.

So... it's my lighting then???! Anyone have any ideas how to clean a sump full of detritus out? Anyone have skimmer recommendations for my size tank? I like reef octopus brand, and I don't want to completely overdo it like I did this time.

 

[i Tuna]

Get a good fan, pull your heater if you run one, feed your fish less food more often(sinking pellets may help I use Elos). GFO is good but I prefer Seachem phosgaurd and purigen as it gives me the ability to pull either N or P and seems to be easier on the corals, I don't use a reactor just some media in a cheap filter bag. Wait until the LEDs get there, I assure you SPS will grow under Reefbreeders fixtures. Do you have large amounts of detritus, I use a turkey baster a few times a week to blow the rocks off(it feeds the coral and allows the filter sock to do it's job. Only other curiousity/concern is double checking your salinity with another measuring device.

In my experience feeding pellets = more wasted food = more phosphate. I use New Life Spectrum though, so I have no idea if the food source has more phosphate than others but considering how many people use it successfully, I doubt it. When I feed flake, my fish usually get a lot more of it and less goes to waste.

Also Seachem phosguard is an aluminum based phosphate remover which means that you'll have elevated levels of aluminum with continuous use.

I would suggest GFO, but small amounts at a time so as not to strip the water too fast of PO4 which would stress out SPS.

Definitely also get yourself a PO4 test kit, I use the ELOS one, does the job but is a bit pricey.

 

[epicurus84]

Lights could be the issue of browning. But monti's and other easier sps corals should just brown and shouldn't die. Even most acro's will just brown. When they brown and die i would say something different then just lighting is going on.

Also i would not change all at once, that way you'll never know what fixed the problem.

Good LED's are fine for sps, great even, just be carefull with the amount of lighting.