Travis L. Stevens
New member
No problem.
Using refugium as a zooplankton producer?
- Thread starter lunarlanderboy
- Start date
Hi Eshook,
I think the point that PRC and Graveyardworm are suggesting is to use a bulk feed of phyto to drip feed to rotifers or mysid cultures or straight into the tank for your corals. This way you don't need to grow your own phyto and can still have live food that is constantly being overflowed to the main tank.
This way you can just use the skimmer for exporting skimmate and throw the skimmate out instead of recycling it.
So instead of dripping skimmate into the top of the "geosapper" you have a separate bulk container (maybe in a fridge) containing a batch of phyto concentrate or whatever, with an air stone to keep it aerated, and you drip phyto mix straight into the culture of rotifers/mysid whatever.
This would require an ongoing cost of buying the phyto feed, but with the super concentrated stuff from reed mariculture it might be fairly cheep for a several month supply of phyto without having to go through the trouble of recycling the skimmate and lighting a phyto culture, running a UV sterilizer, and growing your own.
I see their point, but I still would like to see how closed of a system can be sustained... if you could get it so that the only inputs were make up water, light, and the occasional addition of a little salt mix... and some supplemental feed to allow for growth of corals or breeding fish/snails that would be pretty cool.
Cheers,
Doug
I think the point that PRC and Graveyardworm are suggesting is to use a bulk feed of phyto to drip feed to rotifers or mysid cultures or straight into the tank for your corals. This way you don't need to grow your own phyto and can still have live food that is constantly being overflowed to the main tank.
This way you can just use the skimmer for exporting skimmate and throw the skimmate out instead of recycling it.
So instead of dripping skimmate into the top of the "geosapper" you have a separate bulk container (maybe in a fridge) containing a batch of phyto concentrate or whatever, with an air stone to keep it aerated, and you drip phyto mix straight into the culture of rotifers/mysid whatever.
This would require an ongoing cost of buying the phyto feed, but with the super concentrated stuff from reed mariculture it might be fairly cheep for a several month supply of phyto without having to go through the trouble of recycling the skimmate and lighting a phyto culture, running a UV sterilizer, and growing your own.
I see their point, but I still would like to see how closed of a system can be sustained... if you could get it so that the only inputs were make up water, light, and the occasional addition of a little salt mix... and some supplemental feed to allow for growth of corals or breeding fish/snails that would be pretty cool.
Cheers,
Doug
Removing double post.
And since I am going to be putting something in its place.
Tropical abalone might also be a good broadcast spawner that eats microalgae, so is good for cleanup, and can also be encouraged to spawn based on temperature. Not sure how often you could trigger spawning, but I like the idea of abalone in the tank anyway so if they can be useful in providing cleanup services and also broadcast spawning, that is cool.
So:
Stomatella varia
bristle worms
hermit crabs/emerald crabs
tropical abalone
mysid shrimp
scarlet cleaner shrimp/peppermint shrimp
rotifers
copepods/amphipods
saltwater mollies
The sea bunnies from www.ipsf.com sound like a good source, but seem a little expensive to me.
The strombus grazer snails from IPSF would not be good for plankton production because they do not have a free swimming larval stage. The site says they have benthic development.
Ok, time to take a nap and watch some tv.
Cheers,
Doug
And since I am going to be putting something in its place.
Tropical abalone might also be a good broadcast spawner that eats microalgae, so is good for cleanup, and can also be encouraged to spawn based on temperature. Not sure how often you could trigger spawning, but I like the idea of abalone in the tank anyway so if they can be useful in providing cleanup services and also broadcast spawning, that is cool.
So:
Stomatella varia
bristle worms
hermit crabs/emerald crabs
tropical abalone
mysid shrimp
scarlet cleaner shrimp/peppermint shrimp
rotifers
copepods/amphipods
saltwater mollies
The sea bunnies from www.ipsf.com sound like a good source, but seem a little expensive to me.
The strombus grazer snails from IPSF would not be good for plankton production because they do not have a free swimming larval stage. The site says they have benthic development.
Ok, time to take a nap and watch some tv.
Cheers,
Doug
Last edited:
YoungReefer06
New member
Hello Reefers!
New member and lookiing at threads and thought i would respond to this one.
Mysid shrimp i do not think are worth it because the bigger ones eat the smaller ones, so you have to constantly seperate the sizes.
My royal gramma also LOVES to eat baby mollies. i don't breed these myself but pick them up at a LFS that i work at. I get like 20 at a time. I wouldn't want to put adults in my display though, the added bioload will probally do more harm then good.
I think the ipsf.com sea bunnies would be the best... but how toxic could they possibly be?
I myself just try to reproduce pods in my fuges.
New member and lookiing at threads and thought i would respond to this one.
Mysid shrimp i do not think are worth it because the bigger ones eat the smaller ones, so you have to constantly seperate the sizes.
My royal gramma also LOVES to eat baby mollies. i don't breed these myself but pick them up at a LFS that i work at. I get like 20 at a time. I wouldn't want to put adults in my display though, the added bioload will probally do more harm then good.
I think the ipsf.com sea bunnies would be the best... but how toxic could they possibly be?
I myself just try to reproduce pods in my fuges.
engagg
New member
Barry, I have no idea. I just ran across the advertisement in the new issue of Coral. Try Riopump.net. The picture of the shaft looks pretty cool the ad says "more gallons per watts of power, compact size, more output power comparable only to an external MD pupm but uses less energy and yet...... still fully submersible."
To keep this relevant to the thread..... It may give you that extra 10% of non sliced and diced fauna from the fuge!
Greg
To keep this relevant to the thread..... It may give you that extra 10% of non sliced and diced fauna from the fuge!
Greg
Travis L. Stevens
New member
What worries me though is it is made by Rio. A company that is known for notoriously faulty pumps. Either way, thanks for the info. I'll keep an eye out. In the mean time, Im sure someone else that is a little more reputable might pick up on the same idea
Youngsilver
C'est un touche-Ã -tout
Earlier in the tread i saw the discussion of safe fuge pumps. I would like to give an idea that I have had for some time now:
Is everyone familiar with the python hose setup for water changes, powered by your water faucet? If not, I will attemp to describe it. You have the typical hose withthe wider end for sucking th egravel ect. but what interests me is on the other end. You have a plastic sideways T shaped peice that connects to the faucet,there is one peice of pipe that runs vertical with a peice of piping that splits off of it in the middle at a 90 degree angle ythat conencts to the hose. when you turn on the faucet, the water moving past the hole goign to the hose creates a siphon, thus sucking the water from the hose.
Couldn't you use a pump capable of being mounted externally in the place of the faucet, being fed from the display tank, possible feeding a closed loop or something, in this manner to siphon safely form your fuge under the tank. I know my faucet is capable of moving water easily through the approx 20ft of hose and up the kitchen sink approx 3-4ft. What are your thoughts on this?
Here is the faucet adaptor mentioned, the top would attach to a pump mounted above the tank, it woudl probable have to be mounted vertically, the bottom woud then feed a closed loop pray bar ect. then teh middle peice would be exausting fuge water, zooplankton, pods ect safely:
Is everyone familiar with the python hose setup for water changes, powered by your water faucet? If not, I will attemp to describe it. You have the typical hose withthe wider end for sucking th egravel ect. but what interests me is on the other end. You have a plastic sideways T shaped peice that connects to the faucet,there is one peice of pipe that runs vertical with a peice of piping that splits off of it in the middle at a 90 degree angle ythat conencts to the hose. when you turn on the faucet, the water moving past the hole goign to the hose creates a siphon, thus sucking the water from the hose.
Couldn't you use a pump capable of being mounted externally in the place of the faucet, being fed from the display tank, possible feeding a closed loop or something, in this manner to siphon safely form your fuge under the tank. I know my faucet is capable of moving water easily through the approx 20ft of hose and up the kitchen sink approx 3-4ft. What are your thoughts on this?
Here is the faucet adaptor mentioned, the top would attach to a pump mounted above the tank, it woudl probable have to be mounted vertically, the bottom woud then feed a closed loop pray bar ect. then teh middle peice would be exausting fuge water, zooplankton, pods ect safely:
Youngsilver
C'est un touche-Ã -tout
similar to a venturi powerhead also, but instead of pulling air, it would be syphoning fuge water. I think 300 gph or so would do the trick.
Has anyone else put any thought to this method, or tried it? Seems simple enough that someone had to have at least thought about it before me
Has anyone else put any thought to this method, or tried it? Seems simple enough that someone had to have at least thought about it before me
"
Stomatella varia
bristle worms
hermit crabs/emerald crabs
tropical abalone
mysid shrimp
scarlet cleaner shrimp/peppermint shrimp
rotifers
copepods/amphipods
saltwater mollies"
Does anyone have any experience on the timeframes that these creatures spawn by? If they only produce broadcast offspring every two months...well that wouldn't work too well without having a ton of them...
Stomatella varia
bristle worms
hermit crabs/emerald crabs
tropical abalone
mysid shrimp
scarlet cleaner shrimp/peppermint shrimp
rotifers
copepods/amphipods
saltwater mollies"
Does anyone have any experience on the timeframes that these creatures spawn by? If they only produce broadcast offspring every two months...well that wouldn't work too well without having a ton of them...
Youngsilver, I think it'd be pretty difficult to move 300GPH that way. If I'm understanding your concept, and it's the only way I could think to do it as well, you'd need to pump a whole lot of tank water to generate the siphon to move the water from the downstream fuge up into the tank. In the process you'd probably end up killing more critters than if you just pumped the water up from the fuge directly. I think the whole concern over pumps killing microfauna is mostly unsubstantiated. I recently had a pistol shrimp spawn in my display tank. Luckily it had built it's burrow right up against the glass so I could see the whole process. In addition to my main display I have a 50G downstream refugium, a 50G upstream refugium and two 40G growout tanks. The only way for anything to get to the upstream fuge and two growout tanks is through my return pump, an Iwaki 55. I now have baby pistol shrimp in all of my tanks/fuges. My guess is that the Iwaki 55, being a pressure pump is probably one of the less friendly to take a trip through since they would generally have tighter tolerances and smaller openings than a flow pump. However, quite a few baby pistol shrimp (1-4mm in length) have managed to make the trip unscathed.
Travis L. Stevens
New member
Good point, exo. But remember. These creatures are "designed" with pressure in mind. Even Isopods such as Bathynomus giganticus (see avatar) are found on the sea floor. So why would these creature implode sp readily? Just speculating, but I would suspect more if not almost all organisms that go through the syphon would live versus braving an impeller pump.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6626541#post6626541 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by barryhc
Good info. Doug. I would be cautious about ISPF. Mixed reviews on that one ( especially the "sea bunnies" ). Their marketing "hocus pocus" makes me nauseous as well.
> Barry
We bought a pair last year. Set them up in a floating breeder "cage" to keep them safe from crabs, critters, fish, etc and almost daily swapped out the macro algae that they ate (they were also in the sump/fuge, away from heavy lighting). For the 1 1/2 weeks that they surived, they did a wonderful job paying eggs and generating plantonic larvae. But at their cost, and limited lifespan, I would not recommend them to other hobbyists
Psyire
Premium Member
Tons of stuff will pass through your normal return pump unharmed.
I setup my 180g display with only baserock. I added LR to my 'fuge and within no time, I had tons of pods, worms, algae, and other critters in the main tank.
IMO, there is no need for a 'special' delivery system. It is just important to have a predator free breeding ground for these little dudes.
I setup my 180g display with only baserock. I added LR to my 'fuge and within no time, I had tons of pods, worms, algae, and other critters in the main tank.
IMO, there is no need for a 'special' delivery system. It is just important to have a predator free breeding ground for these little dudes.
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