using tap water?

[xxxjwxxx]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8043746#post8043746 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AZDesertRat
I'm sorry you don't get it.
The customers that are reporting satisfaction are mostly uninformed as to what the units are capable or not capable of whne compared to better quality units. If you have nothing to compare it to you are happy. Set it side by side with a Typhoon III or Spectrapure Max Cap RO/DI and there really is no comparison at all.
And yes I can make water that shows up less than 0 on a TDS meter. I do it every day. Most TDS meters are not sensitive enough to read below 5 microsiemens but the new HM Digital COM-100 will get down to about 10 megaohms resistivity and my water is less than that as proven with a Thornton bench top conductivity/resistivity meter.
As for the two units you linked to, yes both are substandard for reef use. First of all they have a poorly designed DI system that uses a hollow tube stuffed with some resin that one does not hold enough and two in no way directs the flow evenly so you get channeling and short circuiting. They also use poor quality pre filters, in some cases granular activated carbon which is a poor choice for a reef tank, and poor quality carbon blocks.

Compare those units to this one and you will see a major difference:

http://www.spectrapure.com/St_MaxCap-RO-DI.htm

Yes it costs more money but they hand test and guarantee it to be better than 98% rejection and it will give you true 18.2 megaohm water that you will never ever see with one of those others.

The way that I see it, as an average consumer... I'm sure everyone else would agree.

I'm sure majority of users have this pocket TDS meter that they use and don't want to spend more than 20.00 on it.

If it all reads 0, I'm sure that the difference between this spectrapure and my e-bay unit is not going to kill my reef tank. Lets be practical here...

Once again, why spend double the price when both systems will read 0ppm on the TDS meter? Also a lot of places even say up to 10 ppm is fine for reef tanks....

Let me ask you this question... Do you believe by me using my e-bay unit vs your spectra pure or whatever you use, unit. Your tank will be more sucessful than mine?

 

[AZDesertRat]

If all other things are equal, yes without a doubt. Many things that less expensive filters don't do well on are cumulative poisons and are detrimental to reef life. Cheap DI systems don't do well on silicates, phosphates, arsenic, nitrates, strontium, selenium and any number of other things. If I never add it at all and you do add it it will collect over time and you will get lower growth as well as a greater possibility of a crash once its reached the point of no return.
Lets give our corals and fish the best environment we can within reason.

 

[Sk8r]

The main thing to remember is that any mineral you put into your tank is exported by only a few processes.
1. fish uptake it and it becomes flesh and bone
2. plants uptake it and you toss the excess
3. inverts and bacteria take it in.
4. your water changes take some out, but put some in.

IE, it just keeps building up. What was .00024 copper becomes a lot more copper over the years, until it's a problem.

 

[pili]

wow, i didnt realize that the difference in RO units was so great. Now im glad i spent the extra money on the Typhoon III

 

[barjam]

I started my FOWLR tank before I knew that I had have an RO/DI filter. My tank has been running for three months on tap water (through a carbon filter) and I haven't had any issues. My tank is covered so the evaporation isn't all fast which probably helps slow the buildup of bad things.

I am going to buy an RO/DI in the next few months but for now I don't have the budget for it.

 

[xxxjwxxx]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8043899#post8043899 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
The main thing to remember is that any mineral you put into your tank is exported by only a few processes.
1. fish uptake it and it becomes flesh and bone
2. plants uptake it and you toss the excess
3. inverts and bacteria take it in.
4. your water changes take some out, but put some in.

IE, it just keeps building up. What was .00024 copper becomes a lot more copper over the years, until it's a problem.

Guess that means ill use the money that i saved on my RO/DI unit and use it towards a better Protein Skimmer. Then it will be like I bought that unit but better!

 

[AZDesertRat]

Protein skimmers remove Organics not Inorganics. They are two different things entirely.

 

[barjam]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8043899#post8043899 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
The main thing to remember is that any mineral you put into your tank is exported by only a few processes.
1. fish uptake it and it becomes flesh and bone
2. plants uptake it and you toss the excess
3. inverts and bacteria take it in.
4. your water changes take some out, but put some in.

IE, it just keeps building up. What was .00024 copper becomes a lot more copper over the years, until it's a problem.

Actually I was trying to figure out the math on that but for some reason it wasn't coming to me (it has been too long since college). Anyhow if you assume a set % of copper in your source and a set rate of evaporation then what would the minimum water change per week to keep the copper at a set percentage? My gut feeling is that as long as your water changes are equal to or greater than your evaporation rate it the contaminate, in this case copper, would stabilize.

I found the math problem interesting if nothing else.

 

[sammyp]

the reason why i'm trying to 'skimp' is because i'm on a budget. i'm trying to save money. i'm not gonna go buy some cheap product though. i want something bare bones, something basic. yet something that will work well and be consistant and not break down.

my tank is 75 gallons. do you really think i need a typhoon III that will produce 75gpd? thats enough water to fill my tank in one day.

are kent marine RO units worth it?

 

[AZDesertRat]

Kents are OK but overpriced. The reason people are steering you to the Typhoon is 1. It uses a Dow Filmtec RO membrane which is a proven product and consistently produces high quality water at the lowest available pressure of any membrane on the market.
2. It uses high quality pre and carbon filters, not granular carbon or 10 micron or larger (some not even specified)carbon blocks like some others. The finer the micron rating on the block the better the volatile chemical and chlorine removal effectiveness and capacity. 3. It uses a real DI filter not a throw away or a hollow tube with a little resin bobbbing around in it. It is a true engineered housing and refillable cartridge design that holds a full 24 oz of resin for better water quality and quantity. 4. It is backed by a reputable company that has been around for years and will not fold up tomorrow and be gone. A warranty is only as good as its vendor.
They do offer less expensive units but you give up things like the DI filter, TDS meter, autoshutoff and pressure gauge all of which are important and will cost you more to buy later.

 

[barjam]

I was looking at the Typhoon III today (thats the one I plan to get) it looked to me like the bundle was basically a ~150 for the RO/DI and ~50 for the goodies it comes with. I think that TDS meter alone is 25 or so.

That seems like a great deal.

 

[sammyp]

do i really need a DI filter, TDS meter, autoshutoff and pressure gauge?

i've been told that the DI filter is not necessary. what is your opinion on that?

 

[drillsar]

Ok RO alone TDS will show between 5-12, With DI reading should be 0-2 big difference yes you need Di filter.

Tds meter will tell you when your filters are going bad a must.

autoshutoff and pressure gauge not sure.

 

[AZDesertRat]

Absolutely necessary. RO alone or even RO with carbon in front of it is only partially effective at reducing some constituents. The only way you will know how well any filter is doing is with the TDS meter and pressure gauge. How else will you know if your carbon or prefilter are plugged or if your DI resin is exhausted. You can actually make water worse than it was originally when you try to extend a filter past its prime. With things like phosphates and silicates that are weakly ionized, a DI cartridge will start letting them go in large numbers once it is near exhaustion and its worse than the tap wate rever was. You must do the little bit of required maintenance every 6 months or when the DI is starting to pass TDS and the gauge and TDS meter are how you know to do it.

 

[sammyp]

12 ppm TDS is still 99.9% pure.....

alright, whatever, i'll get that RO unit. sheesh. $200 is pretty steep though but if you guys say its a good value for what you get then i'll go for it.

 

[AZDesertRat]

What is 99% pure?
RO by itself will remove about 98% of most things, thats with a good RO membrane not the one in most e-bay units. As I said before there are things that RO is not good at removing and nitrates is one of them, phosphates is another. You need to combination of carbon, RO and DI to get it all.

 

[drillsar]

Let me ask you though I have a watergeneral is it possible to get better filters for it or is it just better to buy the typhoon III?

I was told to get a 75gpd dow membrane. Im not sure what to do. But a ro/system is the filters it uses correct? the psi gauge tells you what when the filter is bad?

 

[ohioreef]

I have a filterdirect, aka water general, unit and it has worked fine with the factory filters. You could buy different filters if you want, but I don't see any real reason to. I also got the 75gpd membrane when I got mine and I'm getting about 97% rejection rate.

 

[AZDesertRat]

First find out what membrane you have in it. There is a difference and the Dow Filmtec 75 GPD would be the membrane of choice.
Next what better filters get you is extended RO membrane life due to better filtration of not only sediment but of chlorine and oter volatiles that could damage or shorten the life of the membrane. They also give you better water quality as your membrane and DI do not have to work as hard.
ohioreefer seems to be happy with his but I hear more negative than positive from people who have bought them and later either upgraded it or replaced it all together. I wouldn't replace it but upgrading is a wise choice from both a cost and water quality standpoint. BTW my RO membrane is getting a rejection rate of 98.9538% with a tap water TDS of 736, RO only of 7.7, and RO/DI of 18.2 megaohms resistivity. That is measured with a HM Digital COM-100 conductivity meter and verified with a $1200 Thornton benchtop conductivity meter. With the right filters you could also achieve that but it can't happen for $100.

 

[HighlandReef]

i just ordered a airwaterice, heard alot of good about them but dont have it yet, ups...you know.