Need help not sure what is going on.. Tested my water a little over a week ago and was very surprised to find my nitrates were 160 ppm!!! So I did a 80% Water changed and it was still at 40 ppm a couple of days passed and I was back to 80 maybe even 100 so I started Vodka dosing instead of doing another large water change.. Well I started at .3ml for 75 gallon tank 3 days went to .6 until today got frustrated and added 1.75ml it has been working or so it seems but im still at 40 ppm maybe even 60ppm.. What do you guys recommend?
Very high nitrates
- Thread starter SSLVRNBLK
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75 gallon refugium protein skimmer.. 3inch sand bed.. Have 9 fish lots of corals LPS and Anemones... Everything looks very good.. I have not lost anything.. The weird think is I did lose over the last month a Frogspawn detached and torch coral detached.. Not sure if high nitrate had anything to do with that?
pledosophy
Active member
A turbo spiking nitrates to 160ppm in a 115g system? Not likely.
I would take the water to LFS, and also take some newly made SW to a LFS and ask them to test it. I'd bet a quarter it is your source water with those problems.
Also nitrates have more to do with how much you feed not how many fish you have. Are you feeding every day? Twice a day? 5x a day? It really has little to do with how many fish you have and is really about how much you put in.
I would take the water to LFS, and also take some newly made SW to a LFS and ask them to test it. I'd bet a quarter it is your source water with those problems.
Also nitrates have more to do with how much you feed not how many fish you have. Are you feeding every day? Twice a day? 5x a day? It really has little to do with how many fish you have and is really about how much you put in.
You are probably not getting that kind of nitrate increase from feeding. In all likelihood your sand bed has become saturated with most of the food you have ever put in the tank and is now a massive nitrate factory...I hate that term, but it fits so..
Even if your test kit is screwy on actual amount, your percent increase is through the roof.
Carbon dosing will take a long time to catch up with this kind of nitrate production. You need to find the source before attempting it or you will end up over dosing your system.
I would begin a 25% change of your sand bed every two weeks and I would increase flow and physical filtration to remove waste from the system. I can't comment on the miracle mud except to say that whatever it is supposed to be doing, it is not doing.
Even if your test kit is screwy on actual amount, your percent increase is through the roof.
Carbon dosing will take a long time to catch up with this kind of nitrate production. You need to find the source before attempting it or you will end up over dosing your system.
I would begin a 25% change of your sand bed every two weeks and I would increase flow and physical filtration to remove waste from the system. I can't comment on the miracle mud except to say that whatever it is supposed to be doing, it is not doing.
These are VERY good answer and here is the history on the sandbed and Miracle mud.. I bought the system used and used the same mud and sand which he said was about 2 - 3 years old.. I have always suspected the sand to be be my issue even though I vacuum it. I think it may be exhausted? As for the mud I have other algaes in the Refugium that are anchoring to it so im not sure if it is also exhausted? I feed once a day every day.. I give all my anemones raw shrimp every other day.. Every one seems very healthy but I have had some weird things happen like the frogspawn and the torch I mentioned. I also have a flowerpot that will not open it only opens 1/4 of the way. But I know they are tuff to keep alive.. If the sand and the mud are dead how would you recommend I replace them.. I have about 90lbs. Live rock and 15lbs in refugium.. As for testing I used two different test kits mine is API and the results were the same. Fresh salt water seem to test alright Nitrate was zero and Phos. was .20 Thanks
Chihuahua6
Premium Member
With the sand, its pretty straight forward, you are going to suck out about and replace about 25% every two weeks, keeping relatively defined areas meaning visually divide the tank into quarters. If you try to remove too much of it too soon you might create more problems. You will want to do it with a large gauge siphon so that anything buried in such as sulfides get sucked out with it. Replace without mixing the old with the new.
On the miracle mud, I have next to no clue, my best guess would be something similar above, but with mud, you may have to disconnect it from the tank in some way and do a full swap in order not have it flowing through your system. I don't think I would do both at the same time if you end up doing anything with the mud. Also, I suspect since the mud when it is used it fairly compacted, it might be less of a problem beneath the first few millimeters.
Of course, you could radically simplify and go bare-bottom like me.
Bare bottom or the change out procedure?
disc1
-RT * ln(k)
I doubt it is your whole problem but I'll add this just as an observation. Chaeto in the sump absorbs nutrients as it is growing. I've seen tons of people say, "I've got a huge ball of chaeto" and in my experience it is the little ball that is growing that does the most good. I always noticed a marked decrease in nitrate, when I was still measuring the stuff, after I trimmed the chaeto back. It seemed like eventually it hit a point where the growth slowed and so did the nutrient uptake.
Thats a very good point and trust me the ball I have is huge.. I will cut it back and see what happens.. Thanks
The change from sand to bare bottom is a change more for how you manage the aquarium. You can actually feed more, but the reason has to do with the fact that once you remove the sand all the leftover food and detritus is visible now. The fact that it is visible will tell you that physical filtration and a really good skimmer is a necessity.
The other change is that when I had a sand bed I usually ran about a 3" + deep sand bed in the tank. My tank ran zero nitrates because of the full on anoxic areas within the bed i.e. black lines throughout the bottom. This worked for about 3 years more or less before the whole thing stops working. You will have to do something else about nitrates. I chose a combination of Sechem Matrix which is more or less like live rock, but more efficient, and carbon dosing. I feed alot so the matrix kept me at 50 ppm nitrate not matter how much I fed (although zero if I fed sparingly), keeping in mind of course that I am filtering out every bit of extra bits that doesn't get eaten between the filter socks, protein skimmer and massive flow in the tank. The carbon dosing now has me near zero.
The next thing is that when I switched from a sand bed to bare bottom, by PH fluctuated directly with the biological activity in the tank so you have to be more on top of alkalinity than with the sand bed.
Overall, there is less hokus pokus and more direct science involved. By hokus pokus I mean that when we have sand beds particularly deep sand beds, we think they can do things they can't, like dematerialize food and detritus.
I can put 50 times flow through my tank and there are no sand storms; though I am generally doing that to create detritus storms.
btw, the last time I changed out a DSB it was in a 55 gallon and not in my larger tanks, I literally pulled everything from the tanks into holding tanks and changed the whole thing at once because I ran full anoxic zones. It was a soft coral, leather, and zoanthid tank with anemonies. Everything did fine except the leathers. They never really recovered.
The other change is that when I had a sand bed I usually ran about a 3" + deep sand bed in the tank. My tank ran zero nitrates because of the full on anoxic areas within the bed i.e. black lines throughout the bottom. This worked for about 3 years more or less before the whole thing stops working. You will have to do something else about nitrates. I chose a combination of Sechem Matrix which is more or less like live rock, but more efficient, and carbon dosing. I feed alot so the matrix kept me at 50 ppm nitrate not matter how much I fed (although zero if I fed sparingly), keeping in mind of course that I am filtering out every bit of extra bits that doesn't get eaten between the filter socks, protein skimmer and massive flow in the tank. The carbon dosing now has me near zero.
The next thing is that when I switched from a sand bed to bare bottom, by PH fluctuated directly with the biological activity in the tank so you have to be more on top of alkalinity than with the sand bed.
Overall, there is less hokus pokus and more direct science involved. By hokus pokus I mean that when we have sand beds particularly deep sand beds, we think they can do things they can't, like dematerialize food and detritus.
I can put 50 times flow through my tank and there are no sand storms; though I am generally doing that to create detritus storms.
btw, the last time I changed out a DSB it was in a 55 gallon and not in my larger tanks, I literally pulled everything from the tanks into holding tanks and changed the whole thing at once because I ran full anoxic zones. It was a soft coral, leather, and zoanthid tank with anemonies. Everything did fine except the leathers. They never really recovered.
This. As soon as I read your post I was going to ask if you ever "exported" your Chaeto - ie, removed it from the tank so more can grow. That's the only way to remove the nitrates, growing Chaeto just binds it.
Kevin
