Very Large Tank, now with ich
- Thread starter Humongous
- Start date
jbvdhp
Active member
I think that's most people's dilemmas. Do you really want to sit and wonder if you're fish will make it or if they'll suffer? I'm sure most people manage it. And yes during tx and qt you may have deaths too.
My buddy and I bought sohals and purple tangs from the exact place. Both of mine made it, his purple died within three days after an ich explosion. Now his other fish have it, but his sohal had it and "got over it". He has the train of thought most people have regarding ich and qt.
I can say my DT is parasite free and will remain so.
Say you wait it out, and they slowly die one by one... And it takes 4-6 months. Then you start your fallow period, when it could have been done today. You'll have to wait even longer!
Arringar
New member
That's a lot of fish, it is a huge investment both financially and in time spent. Given that you've had some of them for a decade or more it is probably also an emotional investment. Personally I would do whatever it takes to save them. Obviously you can't just go all cowboy and start dosing the crap out of them with copper and lose them to shock but definitely consider hypo in the DT. Or maybe CP.
So here are my observations thus far. Some fish devour the ick shield food and they are parasite free. Some fish eat it for a few days then they stop eating it, they exhibit a few spots. Some refuse to eat it altogether and seem to have a natural resistance.
I feed them a varied diet along with the pellets. I came home today to find only my Atlantic blue tang covered in spots, no other fish showing spots at all. So I know that the food will not stop the parasite altogether and I knew that going in. Has it slowed the progress, yes, is it slowed enough, time will tell. I am going to watch for about a week and then make my decision as to CP or hypo.
As some one earlier pointed out, I don't want to wait for 6 months only to have to remove all corals and start a 30 day cp cycle. I know I can go back to being parasite free. I am getting very disheartened about the thought of losing the livestock and about the process of treating the tank. I hope that everyone who's been following , especially with large tanks , just learns something from this journey.
Does anybody have any idea on how much light the tank can accept while being treated with cp? I have some fish that hide unless the lights are bright and I dont want to starve them to death.
Sorry for the long winded response, jest venting.
I feed them a varied diet along with the pellets. I came home today to find only my Atlantic blue tang covered in spots, no other fish showing spots at all. So I know that the food will not stop the parasite altogether and I knew that going in. Has it slowed the progress, yes, is it slowed enough, time will tell. I am going to watch for about a week and then make my decision as to CP or hypo.
As some one earlier pointed out, I don't want to wait for 6 months only to have to remove all corals and start a 30 day cp cycle. I know I can go back to being parasite free. I am getting very disheartened about the thought of losing the livestock and about the process of treating the tank. I hope that everyone who's been following , especially with large tanks , just learns something from this journey.
Does anybody have any idea on how much light the tank can accept while being treated with cp? I have some fish that hide unless the lights are bright and I dont want to starve them to death.
Sorry for the long winded response, jest venting.
jbvdhp
Active member
Iirc, the uv spectrum will break down the cp, so no reef lighting. Indirect lighting is best, sun is bad, someone said they had tx failure with even CFLs!!!!
I heard incandescent are best.
Deinonych
New member
CFLs emit UV, so it's not surprising that it would break down. I would stick with ambient lighting if at all possible since there's no test kit for CP.
Updates: bought both NLS Ick shield pellets and powder intending to try the food first but infestation is to virulent and I was unable to get into it for a week due to work. Royal Gramma succumbed. Kole Tang in hiding. Midas blenny swimming into mp40 current 72+ hours straight. So I've removed corals to a clean 10 QT w pendant LED and a little maxijet.
Tonight when the snails come out I will remove as many as I can get. I must have at least 100 and all but a few burrow into the sand during the day. Ick shield powder tomorrow.
Thoughts on lighting. I'm going to let the tank go with the light from my bay windows. Tank is 20' away and 3/4" glass which will remove UV almost if not entirely.
Thoughts on absorption by rock and sand. I dont know how to test the ISP concentration but assume some will be absorbed. I think I will add +25% after 1 week and +25% after 2 weeks. If behavior is really good by then, with appetite back, then probably again after another week. And I'll put carbon and phosphate remover back on line after 35 days. Coral and snails back in after 90 days. And the invert QT stays running for new additions henceforth. Coral shrimp snails etc.
So that's the plan.
Comments and more information and experiences welcome.
Tonight when the snails come out I will remove as many as I can get. I must have at least 100 and all but a few burrow into the sand during the day. Ick shield powder tomorrow.
Thoughts on lighting. I'm going to let the tank go with the light from my bay windows. Tank is 20' away and 3/4" glass which will remove UV almost if not entirely.
Thoughts on absorption by rock and sand. I dont know how to test the ISP concentration but assume some will be absorbed. I think I will add +25% after 1 week and +25% after 2 weeks. If behavior is really good by then, with appetite back, then probably again after another week. And I'll put carbon and phosphate remover back on line after 35 days. Coral and snails back in after 90 days. And the invert QT stays running for new additions henceforth. Coral shrimp snails etc.
So that's the plan.
Comments and more information and experiences welcome.
Information from New Life Spectrum:
Just spoke with Jeff (I think) from NLS:
* To remove you can just put on UV which breaks the IS down.
* Carbon also removes treatment so must take carbon etc. off line.
* Does not "stick" to rock or sand. (Confirms what grandpa10 was told as well. +1)
* Does not kill encysted organisms.
* Protein skimmers DO remove the chemical - it is an polar molecule so attaches to an air water interface - and thus skimmers must be taken off line.
* In QT 21 days is considered sufficient as you start with a clean tank with IS in the water there should not be any encysted organisms and it kills the free swimming stage.
* It was emphasized that the chemical is an algae killer and any algae in the tank, and symbiotic in organisms, will be killed.
Just spoke with Jeff (I think) from NLS:
* To remove you can just put on UV which breaks the IS down.
* Carbon also removes treatment so must take carbon etc. off line.
* Does not "stick" to rock or sand. (Confirms what grandpa10 was told as well. +1)
* Does not kill encysted organisms.
* Protein skimmers DO remove the chemical - it is an polar molecule so attaches to an air water interface - and thus skimmers must be taken off line.
* In QT 21 days is considered sufficient as you start with a clean tank with IS in the water there should not be any encysted organisms and it kills the free swimming stage.
* It was emphasized that the chemical is an algae killer and any algae in the tank, and symbiotic in organisms, will be killed.
Hi everyone,
There's another thread on the NLS Ick Shield now and this is a cut and paste job.
Update: 1 week +1 day from CP dose. Algae film on glass is gray so it looks like cloudy water. That with the green and red lights ... Yuck does the tank look like crap. Remaining snails which I did not get out are dead. Couple large bristle worms on surface tonight dead. I'll get them and some of the dead snails out tomorrow.
Fish behavior better and appetite returning with the exception of the kole tang which is still hiding all the time. I did see it swim in the very back behind the rocks and the motion looked slightly better but too early to tell. Midas blenny looks good with dorsal fin fully erect for first time in 3 weeks. Wrasses improved but not as much. Someone tell them to stop sleeping in the sand. PJ Cardinals hover posture leveling again so also better.
Now interstng side note. Vermetid snails which I expected to have a hard time or die have all developed white tips on their tubes. Presume that means they are dead and the tubes are losing color as a result. I'm going to scrub every rock as I do water changes. Course when I put the coral back I'll be reintroducing vermetids. I see no way around that.
Corals in QT. Trachy is doing great. Lower current and less light than anywhere in the DT. Everything else except a Duncan which is neutral is suffering to some degree or another due to not enough current or light. I'll have to improve this.
There's another thread on the NLS Ick Shield now and this is a cut and paste job.
Update: 1 week +1 day from CP dose. Algae film on glass is gray so it looks like cloudy water. That with the green and red lights ... Yuck does the tank look like crap. Remaining snails which I did not get out are dead. Couple large bristle worms on surface tonight dead. I'll get them and some of the dead snails out tomorrow.
Fish behavior better and appetite returning with the exception of the kole tang which is still hiding all the time. I did see it swim in the very back behind the rocks and the motion looked slightly better but too early to tell. Midas blenny looks good with dorsal fin fully erect for first time in 3 weeks. Wrasses improved but not as much. Someone tell them to stop sleeping in the sand. PJ Cardinals hover posture leveling again so also better.
Now interstng side note. Vermetid snails which I expected to have a hard time or die have all developed white tips on their tubes. Presume that means they are dead and the tubes are losing color as a result. I'm going to scrub every rock as I do water changes. Course when I put the coral back I'll be reintroducing vermetids. I see no way around that.
Corals in QT. Trachy is doing great. Lower current and less light than anywhere in the DT. Everything else except a Duncan which is neutral is suffering to some degree or another due to not enough current or light. I'll have to improve this.
Spar
New member
if you put a stethoscope in the water, you can hear them screaming when they are hit. 100% effectiveness.
So I am in the third day of CP treatment and I am seeing similar results as Joel. My fish are doing great though, all are active except the hippo tangs which come out to feed and then retreat to there caves. As others have stated it is a POTENT algicide. I had been killing off green hair algae but this did it in a day. Coralline algae seems to be unaffected so far. My water looks cloudy and I so badly want to turn on my skimmer but will not.
Update to Ick Shield Powder treatment:
March 8 -- Initial dosage 6 spoons for about 110 or a little less actual water.
From above for convenience, the 8th day update:
Algae film on glass is gray so it looks like cloudy water. That with the green and red lights ... Yuck does the tank look like crap. Remaining snails which I did not get out are dead. Couple large bristle worms on surface tonight dead. I'll get them and some of the dead snails out tomorrow.
Fish behavior better and appetite returning with the exception of the kole tang which is still hiding all the time. I did see it swim in the very back behind the rocks and the motion looked slightly better but too early to tell. Midas blenny looks good with dorsal fin fully erect for first time in 3 weeks. Wrasses improved but not as much. Someone tell them to stop sleeping in the sand. PJ Cardinals hover posture leveling again so also better.
Now interstng side note. Vermetid snails which I expected to have a hard time or die have all developed white tips on their tubes. Presume that means they are dead and the tubes are losing color as a result. I'm going to scrub every rock as I do water changes. Course when I put the coral back I'll be reintroducing vermetids. I see no way around that.
Corals in QT. Trachy is doing great. Lower current and less light than anywhere in the DT. Everything else except a Duncan which is neutral is suffering to some degree or another due to not enough current or light. I'll have to improve this.
March 28 -- 12% water change. I added 3 more spoonfuls of the ISP to compensate for the water change and as a "booster shot" for the expected breakdown of the CP. Supposedly the fish can tolerate much higher amounts but I think this is as high as I will go. 21 days is the prescribed treatment if fish were moved to a clean QT tank but I will run this now until May 24, which is 11 weeks from the start of treatment.
Fish behavior pretty normal although I think that they are slightly skittish. Perhaps that's my fault for not spending enough time in front of the tank.
The glass is covered with a grey film, bacterial or dead algae I don't know. I'm not cleaning the glass as I'm not running the skimmer and don't want to add mechanical filtration. This will remain until the skimmer is back up.
Started to scrub one rock to remove the vermetid snails/skeletons. FUGETTABOUTIT> Steel brush is no match. It's one at a time with a nipper or screwdriver or teaspoon etc. to get these things off and I gave up. Gonna live with these until I do my next tank, which will be started DRY and every thing which goes in will be QT'd inspected dipped *&%&^$%@)&*^_ you get the idea.
Corals in QT. Fascinating to see which are doing well and which are not. Trachy huge. Orange Florida Ricordia, more tan color but expansion is tremendous, Duncan eh and I really don't want to lose this one. Blue short hand polyps stable but pale, blue palys and mixed zoas stable but don't appear happy, yellow polyps not happy but still open and 60-70% expanded, pulsing xenia not expanded well at all, green striped mushrooms not happy and several have released and are slowly drifting around, green star polyps growing faster than they ever did in the DT. (HAH!!) Plus the QT is growing hair algae.
Also fallowing my cheato with the snails I managed to save.
That's it for today.
March 8 -- Initial dosage 6 spoons for about 110 or a little less actual water.
From above for convenience, the 8th day update:
Algae film on glass is gray so it looks like cloudy water. That with the green and red lights ... Yuck does the tank look like crap. Remaining snails which I did not get out are dead. Couple large bristle worms on surface tonight dead. I'll get them and some of the dead snails out tomorrow.
Fish behavior better and appetite returning with the exception of the kole tang which is still hiding all the time. I did see it swim in the very back behind the rocks and the motion looked slightly better but too early to tell. Midas blenny looks good with dorsal fin fully erect for first time in 3 weeks. Wrasses improved but not as much. Someone tell them to stop sleeping in the sand. PJ Cardinals hover posture leveling again so also better.
Now interstng side note. Vermetid snails which I expected to have a hard time or die have all developed white tips on their tubes. Presume that means they are dead and the tubes are losing color as a result. I'm going to scrub every rock as I do water changes. Course when I put the coral back I'll be reintroducing vermetids. I see no way around that.
Corals in QT. Trachy is doing great. Lower current and less light than anywhere in the DT. Everything else except a Duncan which is neutral is suffering to some degree or another due to not enough current or light. I'll have to improve this.
March 28 -- 12% water change. I added 3 more spoonfuls of the ISP to compensate for the water change and as a "booster shot" for the expected breakdown of the CP. Supposedly the fish can tolerate much higher amounts but I think this is as high as I will go. 21 days is the prescribed treatment if fish were moved to a clean QT tank but I will run this now until May 24, which is 11 weeks from the start of treatment.
Fish behavior pretty normal although I think that they are slightly skittish. Perhaps that's my fault for not spending enough time in front of the tank.
The glass is covered with a grey film, bacterial or dead algae I don't know. I'm not cleaning the glass as I'm not running the skimmer and don't want to add mechanical filtration. This will remain until the skimmer is back up.
Started to scrub one rock to remove the vermetid snails/skeletons. FUGETTABOUTIT> Steel brush is no match. It's one at a time with a nipper or screwdriver or teaspoon etc. to get these things off and I gave up. Gonna live with these until I do my next tank, which will be started DRY and every thing which goes in will be QT'd inspected dipped *&%&^$%@)&*^_ you get the idea.
Corals in QT. Fascinating to see which are doing well and which are not. Trachy huge. Orange Florida Ricordia, more tan color but expansion is tremendous, Duncan eh and I really don't want to lose this one. Blue short hand polyps stable but pale, blue palys and mixed zoas stable but don't appear happy, yellow polyps not happy but still open and 60-70% expanded, pulsing xenia not expanded well at all, green striped mushrooms not happy and several have released and are slowly drifting around, green star polyps growing faster than they ever did in the DT. (HAH!!) Plus the QT is growing hair algae.
Also fallowing my cheato with the snails I managed to save.
That's it for today.
I am now on day 16 of the treatment using the NLS Ich Shield Powder.
The fish are all extremely active for being in little to no light other than ambient lighting. I do turn my reds and greens on for a bit to look at the fish and get the firefish to come out of hiding. They do not like the lights out treatment. I have noticed that some of the fish are becoming a little more aggressive towards each other.
All of my corals in the 150 gallon fallow QT tub are thriving, no fish to bother them and I think they are happier in there. They are going to be there for another 6-8 weeks.
I too have a gray film on the glass, no algae growing anywhere. The coralline algae still seem unaffected and has neither grown nor died off. All the hermit crabs are still cruising around like normal, but I haven't seen my cleaner shrimp for a few days. I'm not sure if they have finally succumb to the treatment or if they are just hiding really well.
Last night I turned on the white LEDs for about 10 minutes to observe the fish. All the fish look great, no spots, no secondary infections. I did see a couple of fish that looked like they had been quarreling a little bit but nothing serious. I swear I saw two of my tangs flash against a rock one time each. Whether or not it's something to worry about remains unknown. I'm hoping they just had an itch like we all do from time to time.
The fish are all extremely active for being in little to no light other than ambient lighting. I do turn my reds and greens on for a bit to look at the fish and get the firefish to come out of hiding. They do not like the lights out treatment. I have noticed that some of the fish are becoming a little more aggressive towards each other.
All of my corals in the 150 gallon fallow QT tub are thriving, no fish to bother them and I think they are happier in there. They are going to be there for another 6-8 weeks.
I too have a gray film on the glass, no algae growing anywhere. The coralline algae still seem unaffected and has neither grown nor died off. All the hermit crabs are still cruising around like normal, but I haven't seen my cleaner shrimp for a few days. I'm not sure if they have finally succumb to the treatment or if they are just hiding really well.
Last night I turned on the white LEDs for about 10 minutes to observe the fish. All the fish look great, no spots, no secondary infections. I did see a couple of fish that looked like they had been quarreling a little bit but nothing serious. I swear I saw two of my tangs flash against a rock one time each. Whether or not it's something to worry about remains unknown. I'm hoping they just had an itch like we all do from time to time.
So last night I lost an 11 year old hippo tang. I'm not sure if it just died of old age or some complication due to the treatment but regardless, it sucked! In a knee jerk reaction I turned on the skimmer and let it run over night to clean up the water, oxygenate, and make myself feel better.
My question is should I redose completely again for the remaining 14 days or would that be a lethal dose to the fish? I can't find any information on what will be harmful to them. Maybe I shouldn't add any more but I have a powerful skimmer and I am wondering how much CP it pulled out.
My question is should I redose completely again for the remaining 14 days or would that be a lethal dose to the fish? I can't find any information on what will be harmful to them. Maybe I shouldn't add any more but I have a powerful skimmer and I am wondering how much CP it pulled out.
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