Very Large Tank, now with ich

[Humongous]

I currently have a 1000 gallon display tank with approximately 70 fish. Some are show size tangs, very large Imperator, anthias and others. This tank has been up for 15 months.

Now before anybody jumps on me and says you should have Qt'd.....I did. I have always treated fish with cupramine successfully and other meds as needed for the last 10 years. I've had ich free systems for those 10 years and have helped people QT hundreds of fish. Regardless of this, something slipped through and now I'm in a dilema, looking for thoughts and ideas. Most of these fish I have had for 10 years , while others are newer coming in over the course of this past year.

So any thoughts on treatments? I don't have the practical space to house a large QT tank( I use a 90 gallon for new fish but I buy smaller fish). I know the only bulletproof way is buy removing all fish and going fallow for at least 6 weeks.

I have two large UV units, but I also realize this may only control blooms of the parasite but will not eradicate it so I'm playing a waiting game while hoping that it eventually dies off by division.

I thought of Hypo, as I can remove the small amount of corals I have in the tank.

I've also read about using CP in the water column or via foods. Also not certain I can get them all to eat the foods.

Anyhow, sorry for the long winded introduction. I feel almost sick after all the work and time I spent on QT only to have it fail. I still 100% believe in it though.

 

[jbvdhp]

Very Large Tank, now with ich

Sorry to hear. I can't imagine the stress you and your fish will have to go through. I bet your DT is awesome, and I know you value your oldest pets, so having said this, it's best to treat them and you know it, albeit a very difficult process I imagine.

Some people would say wait it out and see how to manage it, especially with your size system and livestock, some would advocate treating them, but a daunting task. Are you positive it's ich? I would like to know what others with systems this large will tell you. I remember reading an archived thread where someone suggested not doing anything and to see.

Btw, new life spectrum makes ick shield POWDER, and this seems to be very good CP, a member here had a convo with NLS owner and had the chance to pick his brain, and it seems the powder is legit.


I would like to learn, so I'll be reading along. Good luck, some day soon I hope to have a very large system too.

 

[CoralsAddiction]

Even if ich went away on its own for the time being I would not want to be bothered with thought of the parasite coming back because it was not eradicated. To me peace of mind is #1 in this hobby. As for what to do, it would help if we knew whether or not your tank is a reef or fowlr, live sand or bare bottom. I think that a radical solution for me would be removing all the rock, sand and all inverts and just hypo the display tank for 6 weeks. It's easier to store live rock in a large container with a heater and flow than setting up a QT for 70 fish. That's what I would do.

 

[jbvdhp]

Very Large Tank, now with ich

Even if ich went away on its own for the time being I would not want to be bothered with thought of the parasite coming back because it was not eradicated. To me peace of mind is #1 in this hobby. As for what to do, it would help if we knew whether or not your tank is a reef or fowlr, live sand or bare bottom. I think that a radical solution for me would be removing all the rock, sand and all inverts and just hypo the display tank for 6 weeks. It's easier to store live rock in a large container with a heater and flow than setting up a QT for 70 fish. That's what I would do.

Good solution! OP, if you do as suggested, then Chloroquine (CP) could be an option as you can dose your tank if there's only fish. We have a good thread on CP usage here, with varying degrees of success. I tried it, but it didn't work for me, however, there may have been some variables that made it unsuccessful.

I guess if I had a tank as large as yours, the solution presented is reasonable: buy large brute containers/trash cans for your live rock and corals and inverts and treat the tank!

 

[JoelA7]

I'm concerned I have a similar issue but smaller scale. 120 DT and 2@10g QT. Condo living no way to maintain the 11 fish except the DT. Thinking about removing the coral and as many snails as I can find and treating the DT. Maybe with cupramine as it can be removed at least there are some threads here to that effect.

 

[Humongous]

Sorry to hear. I can't imagine the stress you and your fish will have to go through. I bet your DT is awesome, and I know you value your oldest pets, so having said this, it's best to treat them and you know it, albeit a very difficult process I imagine.

Some people would say wait it out and see how to manage it, especially with your size system and livestock, some would advocate treating them, but a daunting task. Are you positive it's ich? I would like to know what others with systems this large will tell you. I remember reading an archived thread where someone suggested not doing anything and to see.

Btw, new life spectrum makes ick shield POWDER, and this seems to be very good CP, a member here had a convo with NLS owner and had the chance to pick his brain, and it seems the powder is legit.


I would like to learn, so I'll be reading along. Good luck, some day soon I hope to have a very large system too.

Thanks for the words, yes I am positive it's ich, I only wish I was wrong about that. I've talked with other large tank owners and it's honestly a 50/50 split on what they've done. Some broke the whole system down and did a reboot 72 days later, while others tell me that I can ride it out.

 

[Humongous]

Even if ich went away on its own for the time being I would not want to be bothered with thought of the parasite coming back because it was not eradicated. To me peace of mind is #1 in this hobby. As for what to do, it would help if we knew whether or not your tank is a reef or fowlr, live sand or bare bottom. I think that a radical solution for me would be removing all the rock, sand and all inverts and just hypo the display tank for 6 weeks. It's easier to store live rock in a large container with a heater and flow than setting up a QT for 70 fish. That's what I would do.

I forgot to give that information. It's a mixed reef with two large bubble tip anemones, some sps, some lps, and sand. I do like your idea of Hypo on the display. I guess a guy could throw in large PVC pieces, maybe some plastic buckets for the fish to hide in. The key phrase you mentioned is "To me peace of mind is #1 in this hobby". That is why I always have quarantined everything.

 

[3FordFamily]

To be honest just because you treated with copper properly and qt'd does not mean your system did not have ich. I've had ich survive copper treatments that were 25% above recommended dose for 6 weeks, in a tank fallow for 3 months, with no new additions.

Most people think the system is ich free but indeed it is not.

What has probably happened is that some water parameter or stress factor has weakened their immune system. I would feed quality mixed foods in garlic (I am aware that garlic does not cure ich but it does entice them to eat more) and double check that everything is working. More nori always seems to help. Buy red nori, also.

Good luck I hope it works out. For the record, all of my systems have ich. In my various tanks I have many tangs (achilles, powder blue, purple, desjardi sailfin, yellow, naso, pacific blue, hippo) and several angels (potters, flame, coral beauty, passer, Queen, emperor) and other tough to keep fish (leopard wrasses, red coris wrasse, etc) and all of my systems have ich. Stress makes it come back temporarily on rare occasions but they're immune and quickly fight it off. No UV sterilizer except on my 180 fowlr and its a mere 15 watts so not very effective.

The only fish that can die of the parasite in my system are new additions. The others are immune. Velvet also, despite being a very potent disease.

 

[3FordFamily]

Also I know it's not a popular choice, but I don't qt. adding potentially sick fish and releasing new strains of parasites in my tank helps my fish keep their immunities and just strengthens their immune systems.

Even if you COULD 100% rid a system of ich (statistically unlikely but it is possible) when (not if) the fish were exposed in the future, it would decimate them potentially because they have no immunity. Think about it like vaccinations. And if you're an anti-vaxer then there's no reasoning with you anyway.

 

[ca1ore]

I forgot to give that information. It's a mixed reef with two large bubble tip anemones, some sps, some lps, and sand. I do like your idea of Hypo on the display. I guess a guy could throw in large PVC pieces, maybe some plastic buckets for the fish to hide in. The key phrase you mentioned is "To me peace of mind is #1 in this hobby". That is why I always have quarantined everything.

Well, if it's a mixed reef, then any in-tank treatments quickly evaporate. I've tried the medicated food, and found that it does not work. At least, it didn't for me. The 'discussion' about whether a tank does or does not have ich is largely pointless. There are three kinds of tanks, those that have demonstrable ich, those that show no symptoms but do contain the parasite, and those that are clear. Who knows what the distribution is of the three. While a QT process does reduce the probability of getting something nasty into your display, clearly its not foolproof. I'm always skeptical of folks who claim a significant fish population but don't QT; though clearly it IS possible.

If you have ich in your tank (mine does), then your options are either to remove all your fish and fallow the tank; or just let the fish ride it out. I cannot honestly say why some people are able to 'manage' ich, while others see their fish population devastated. I don't buy into the whole 'stress' thing, though I do think a well fed and cared for fish population will have greater resistance to pathogens.

My own 'pet' theory is that there are simply different strains of ich with differing levels of potency. If you are fortunate to get one that is less aggressive, I think it can be managed; if you are not fortunate, and get an aggressive strain then fallowing the tank is likely to be your only real option. When I observed ich in my display (about 18 months ago), overt symptoms were apparent on only a couple of fish (the usual suspects) and I decided to ride it out. Even now, symptoms are only present on those same two fish, though addition of ich-sensitive fish is problematic as they often manifest symptoms. New non ich-sensitive fish are fine.

If I were you, I would do what I did Observe the tank, and see if the fish are developing (or already have) an immunity. Breaking down a large tank is a major PitA, so I'd only do it if it seemed that the parasite was going to kill the fish.

 

[3FordFamily]

To add to that, I see that larger systems have less trouble than smaller. Not a giant difference but notable.

 

[ca1ore]

To add to that, I see that larger systems have less trouble than smaller. Not a giant difference but notable.

Oh I agree. Lots of reasons to go bigger than smaller. I think I've used most of them to justify a bigger tank

 

[victorvie]

I tried fresh Garlic cloves juice in the past and it work perfect for me. I had an issues with my tangs getting sick with ich and ever since I started doing it never had an issue again. It also increase their appetite to those picky ones.

 

[jeemann99]

Probiotic Marine Formula by Precision Aquarium (Reef Safe) and an Ozone generator worked for me. I introduced a large Hippo into my tank that infected all my fish, some didnt make it, but after treating my reef tank with Probiotic and Ozone all colored back up and back to normal. took about 2-3 weeks. Good Luck

 

[CHSUB]

leave the rocks, sand, etc, and hypo the dt. i've done it and it works. only remove corals, inverts, snail, etc. forget garlic and other stuff, hypo works and works well!!!! the sooner the better, 70 fish is a lot!!!

 

[jbvdhp]

leave the rocks, sand, etc, and hypo the dt. i've done it and it works. only remove corals, inverts, snail, etc. forget garlic and other stuff, hypo works and works well!!!! the sooner the better, 70 fish is a lot!!!

Won't hypo kill off all the bene bacteria???

 

[ca1ore]

Friend of mine used to toss a potato into his tank to clear it of ich. He stopped talking to me after I asked him if it was important to peel the potato first :lol: Correlation does not mean causation ......

 

[CHSUB]

Won't hypo kill off all the bene bacteria???

ime, no. tank didn't re-cycle or "crash". It was a FOWLR and not much happened besides ick going away. however, maybe others could chime in about bene bacteria???

 

[Spar]

im sure some might die, but i never had issues when I did hypo. you can always add back some more by using seachem stability. and dose prime while things catch up / stabilize.

 

[Deinonych]

Agree with others that hypo is likely the best course of action. Normally, hypo is difficult to pull off, but the large volume of water you are working with should make it easier. Just make sure you use a calibrated refractometer to ensure it stays at 1.009.