vinegar dosing poll
- Thread starter madadi
- Start date
the green goby
New member
That's definitely a possibility. I'm guessing that my nutrients were either unbalanced or my nitrates were going down finally, creating a better environment. Last time I tested they were 40-80.
Oh, well, I can't explain the carbon dosing and algae growth that you saw, if even after carbon dosing the nitrate was still very high, but I'll note that when I dosed very high levels of vinegar (410 mL/day to my system which has a 120 display and sump/refugia about double that) I did see algae grow faster on the glass. It isn't generally recognized that most algae consume organics directly, but enough vinegar in the water may be useful to them somehow.
I don't really know how or why the "balance" of nutrients would impact algae growth, as opposed to the total abundance of each thing it needs.
I don't really know how or why the "balance" of nutrients would impact algae growth, as opposed to the total abundance of each thing it needs.
S2minute
New member
I use those measuring caps that have all the different types of units listed on them. I'd take that and use the ML line to measure. So i'd use 45 ML of kalk and mix it with 500 ml of Vin. That would make me a 5 gal solution. I'd then use a Brute container and make up 15 gals let it settle and dose via liter meter 3, 1 Gal during the night. My Ph would always stay between 7.94-8.00. My Ca around 440-50. I had to add Soda Ash maybe once every 4-5 days to bump up the Kh as i had been seeing a very slow decline. However, i'd still have to scrape the glass every 3 days or so.
This was all for a 400+ gal system with a net water volume of approx 300 gals.
Then i read about Vodka dosing. So i started that per instructions and now am up to 3.9 ml/day. I started this on 4/14. Kh became more stable and would hover between 7.4-7.7. Now, i did notice two things. First, i'm seeing ALOT less buildup on the DT glass. Two, i had a GHA outbreak because of Lugols additions
and along with good husbandry, i'm seeing it fade away too. However that's not all.
I thought i pretty much had the kalk/vin solution maxed out and maybe my system really did not need all that carbon now so i scaled that back. The solution i now use is 4 level tsps kalk per 45 ml vin per gal of solution and i now dose 1 Gal over a 24 hour period. I figured the lesser amount of vin in solution over 24 hours would help raise the Ph.
Also, since the weather is warming, i'm able to open the windows now and i think that is helping too. The Ph now is 8.1. I will add the during all this time i have been also using bio pellets but only a TINY amount for my system,(less than an 1OZ). That was the 1st change i made before using vodka. What i noticed about 2-3 days after that was better PE Esp. with the LPS corals and no apparent neg effects.
SO, a reduced Kalk/vin mix over a 24 hour period, a very tiny amount of BP, diligent husbandry and now vodka. The GHA is going away. The glass needs much less scraping. The Ph is rising. The Kh is more stable. I only have ONE fish left due to what i believe was a MV outbreak,(i'm concentrating on corals atm). Coral PE and overall health is greatly improved and i feed hvy. The coral color is like pastels i truly am impressed with that. Growth was VERY noticeable for awhile but now seems to have slowed down. PO4 via Hanna is troublesome. It's so dang sensitive i end up having to do the test 3-4 times but i believe due to the vodka it's dropping. I really wish there was a more stable way to measure PO4 with that level of sensitivity.
As a side note: I don't use GFO and i only use GAC 2 days before a WC then i remove it till next time. If i need to, i use LC but only rarely.
This was all for a 400+ gal system with a net water volume of approx 300 gals.
Then i read about Vodka dosing. So i started that per instructions and now am up to 3.9 ml/day. I started this on 4/14. Kh became more stable and would hover between 7.4-7.7. Now, i did notice two things. First, i'm seeing ALOT less buildup on the DT glass. Two, i had a GHA outbreak because of Lugols additions
and along with good husbandry, i'm seeing it fade away too. However that's not all.I thought i pretty much had the kalk/vin solution maxed out and maybe my system really did not need all that carbon now so i scaled that back. The solution i now use is 4 level tsps kalk per 45 ml vin per gal of solution and i now dose 1 Gal over a 24 hour period. I figured the lesser amount of vin in solution over 24 hours would help raise the Ph.
Also, since the weather is warming, i'm able to open the windows now and i think that is helping too. The Ph now is 8.1. I will add the during all this time i have been also using bio pellets but only a TINY amount for my system,(less than an 1OZ). That was the 1st change i made before using vodka. What i noticed about 2-3 days after that was better PE Esp. with the LPS corals and no apparent neg effects.
SO, a reduced Kalk/vin mix over a 24 hour period, a very tiny amount of BP, diligent husbandry and now vodka. The GHA is going away. The glass needs much less scraping. The Ph is rising. The Kh is more stable. I only have ONE fish left due to what i believe was a MV outbreak,(i'm concentrating on corals atm). Coral PE and overall health is greatly improved and i feed hvy. The coral color is like pastels i truly am impressed with that. Growth was VERY noticeable for awhile but now seems to have slowed down. PO4 via Hanna is troublesome. It's so dang sensitive i end up having to do the test 3-4 times but i believe due to the vodka it's dropping. I really wish there was a more stable way to measure PO4 with that level of sensitivity.
As a side note: I don't use GFO and i only use GAC 2 days before a WC then i remove it till next time. If i need to, i use LC but only rarely.
Last edited:
asylumdown
New member
FWIW, I have never been able to stop the growth of macroalgae using vinegar, even at high doses.
Kind of a little side note - but I've never understood why people seem to believe that dosing things like vinegar (which is a nutrient reduction strategy) would completely arrest the growth of algae. The only way to completely arrest the growth of all plants cells would be to reduce the amount of plant available nitrogen (in all the forms plants can take it up) in a system to effectively zero and keep it that way long enough for all the plant cells in the tank to die. That would also kill pretty much everything else in the tank as well.
"undetectable" by our kits would certainly slow plant growth, but just like plants on land, some algaes are probably adapted to waters with high concentrations of available nitrogen, and some are probably adapted to vanishingly small levels. In the Great Sand Hills of Saskatchewan where I do research, total nitrogen (all forms, plant available or not) accounts for only 0.02% of the mass of the soil. Plant available nitrogen (both ammonia and nitrate) minute to minute barely reaches the detection limit of the analytical machines that my lab uses. From the perspective of the tests hobbyists use, there is no plant available nitrogen in those soils. And yet the area is a lush, verdant, productive grassland.
You can have a tank with 100ppm nitrate and virtually no algae growth. You can also have a tank with no detectable nitrate where algae seems to grow just fine. The two obviously are linked in a lot of ways, but not in the simplistic, directly causal way I think a lot of people seem to think they are. Less nitrate is better, but less nitrate does not guarantee no algae.
S2minute
New member
vinegar dosing poll
The trend i'm seeing in my system is this. With the use of vodka, i have less demand for vin. I cut down on the vin in the kalk mix i get less carbon input and a higher Ph. The tiny amount of BP i use is helping just enough to enable me to see PE on pretty mush everything. Not only that but the corals really seem to be thriving on it. The Vodka, since its use in my system is turning out to be a huge plus. GHA is fast enough that i can tell by the day. Since i started i find myself having to scrape the glass less and less. Coral colors are stunning. Now my PO4. I use Hanna ULP and i have to say, it's a royal PITA. My readings as of the last week have been around 16-18 PPB. I feed fairly hvy. I have to take like 3-4 dang tests to get an avg reading....which is really ****ing me off. Now i know that is on the high side for a PO4 reading but YET...and i don't fully grasp it but, what GHA i had fro a mistake i made, is rapidly going...and the corals are colored up real nice plus the at the last reading Kh is 7.9. I believe the Bac growing from the increasing amounts of vodka are consuming the PO4 and the corals still have all they need at the same time. growth is weird though. Some corals are really taking off while others are in 1st gear. Please, if anyone knows of a better method of measuring PO4 on a ultra low scale let me know.
The trend i'm seeing in my system is this. With the use of vodka, i have less demand for vin. I cut down on the vin in the kalk mix i get less carbon input and a higher Ph. The tiny amount of BP i use is helping just enough to enable me to see PE on pretty mush everything. Not only that but the corals really seem to be thriving on it. The Vodka, since its use in my system is turning out to be a huge plus. GHA is fast enough that i can tell by the day. Since i started i find myself having to scrape the glass less and less. Coral colors are stunning. Now my PO4. I use Hanna ULP and i have to say, it's a royal PITA. My readings as of the last week have been around 16-18 PPB. I feed fairly hvy. I have to take like 3-4 dang tests to get an avg reading....which is really ****ing me off. Now i know that is on the high side for a PO4 reading but YET...and i don't fully grasp it but, what GHA i had fro a mistake i made, is rapidly going...and the corals are colored up real nice plus the at the last reading Kh is 7.9. I believe the Bac growing from the increasing amounts of vodka are consuming the PO4 and the corals still have all they need at the same time. growth is weird though. Some corals are really taking off while others are in 1st gear. Please, if anyone knows of a better method of measuring PO4 on a ultra low scale let me know.
madadi
ReefOG
when I tried both in the past it seemed vodka was much stronger than vinegar so avoided it because I didn't want to crash my tank. now after I been dosing 60ml of vinegar per day I'm really considering switching. not because one is better than other but because I much rather dose 1-3ml of vodka per day and even that might be a pretty high dose. I'm just concerned about what is accumulating in my tank. still on the fence about it.
S2minute
New member
vinegar dosing poll
Vodka is much stronger. Since starting it, i've cut down the amount of Vin i mix with the Kalk. I want from 1500 ml for a 15 gal mix to 675ml. I started using vodka on 4/14 with .6 ml on day one. Now, i'm up to 2.2 ml twice a day for this week, once before main lights on, once more after main lights off for a total of 4.4ml/day this week and i'm still seeing improvement. After 7 days if i see PO4 not reducing i'll add an additional .5ml for the following week. Really happy that i started vodka. Never knew it would work so well. :bounce3:
Vodka is much stronger. Since starting it, i've cut down the amount of Vin i mix with the Kalk. I want from 1500 ml for a 15 gal mix to 675ml. I started using vodka on 4/14 with .6 ml on day one. Now, i'm up to 2.2 ml twice a day for this week, once before main lights on, once more after main lights off for a total of 4.4ml/day this week and i'm still seeing improvement. After 7 days if i see PO4 not reducing i'll add an additional .5ml for the following week. Really happy that i started vodka. Never knew it would work so well. :bounce3:
I didn't want to crash my tank. now after I been dosing 60ml of vinegar per day I'm really considering switching. not because one is better than other but because I much rather dose 1-3ml of vodka per day and even that might be a pretty high dose. I'm just concerned about what is accumulating in my tank. still on the fence about it.
But the primary difference in "strength" is just water, not anything that accumulates.
Vodka is typically 60% water by weight. Vinegar is typically 95% water by weight, which is added to it for easier handling by ordinary customers.
But the primary difference in "strength" is just water, not anything that accumulates.
Vodka is typically 60% water by weight. Vinegar is typically 95% water by weight, which is added to it for easier handling by ordinary customers.
Possibly. That's a lot less total organic matter producing CO2, and you'll also get less of the initial drop from the vinegar that only shows up later with the vodka.
In a certain sense, both vinegar and vodka have the same net impact on pH overall as both end up as pure CO2 after being metabolized, and CO2 lowers pH.
It is just that vinegar has more of its effect initially and less later, while vodka has all of its effect later.
So, for example, if you slowly and continuously dosed vodka to one tank and vinegar to the other, I do not think you'd see any pH different between the two.
That said, if your tank has "perfect" aeration the CO2 will be blown off as it is produced and the pH drop will go unnoticed, while the vinegar effect could be noticed if it is added all at once.
It is just that vinegar has more of its effect initially and less later, while vodka has all of its effect later.
So, for example, if you slowly and continuously dosed vodka to one tank and vinegar to the other, I do not think you'd see any pH different between the two.
That said, if your tank has "perfect" aeration the CO2 will be blown off as it is produced and the pH drop will go unnoticed, while the vinegar effect could be noticed if it is added all at once.
