vinegar vs denitrator?

[marke]

Some of my local reefers are using naturereef denitrators with good results. I have been dosing, at first vodka and more recently switched to vinegar. I am happy with my results. At first minor cyno which then cleared up. I dont understand what the difference is between bacteria in an entire system vs bacteria in a box dosed back into a system. Can someone help me understand the difference? Also the bacteria food in the denitrator is not vodka or vinegar but something similar. Whats the difference, and can they be interchanged? Thanks in advance for the knowledge!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Both methods can work well. Many different organics could be used in a denitrator, including all the soluble organics and a few which may be too toxic for direct addition (such as methanol), but some denitrators use sulfur.

I think there are benefits to organic carbon dosing over denitrators and these are:

1. better, easier control over the dose, the timing, etc (denitrators may be harder to control properly long term)
2. The bacteria are available as food for sponges, etc.
3. It is cheaper
4. Phosphate reduction is likely better with organic carbon dosing
5. The organic may be useful food for many inverts directly
6. No depletion of alkalinity like sulfur denitrators

Denitrators may have advantages:

1. Less chance for remote effects, such as cyano

 

[tmz]

What is a a "naturereef dentrator".?Googled it; can't find it.

 

[Ron Reefman]

Both methods can work well. Many different organics could be used in a denitrator, including all the soluble organics and a few which may be too toxic for direct addition (such as methanol), but some denitrators use sulfur.

I think there are benefits to organic carbon dosing over denitrators and these are:

1. better, easier control over the dose, the timing, etc (denitrators may be harder to control properly long term)
2. The bacteria are available as food for sponges, etc.
3. It is cheaper
4. Phosphate reduction is likely better with organic carbon dosing
5. The organic may be useful food for many inverts directly
6. No depletion of alkalinity like sulfur denitrators

Denitrators may have advantages:

1. Less chance for remote effects, such as cyano

I use a diy coil denitrator and I'll take exception to a couple of your points.

1) My denitrator is a set it up and basically forget it. It runs 1-2gph and I don't have to do anything.
2) true
3) mine cost all of $15-$20 and runs on an old tiny fountian pump.
4) true
5) possibly but not sure
6) Mine doesn't use sulfer so no alk issues
And I don't have to dose carbon (vodka or vinegar) every day. It's just start it up and forget it. I just look to see that water is flowing out whenever I'm down around the sump.

The only issue I've had with mine in 2 years was due to some algae growing in the coil because it was near a glass door. My wife made 'cover' from an old shower curtian, I flushed the coil and restarted the system. Six weeks later it was doing it's job again. I've had very, very low nitrates going in the denitrator and zero nitrates comming out. At 1-2gph I run the equivalent of my entire system thru it every 7 to 14 days. My nitrates are zero about 95% of the time.

Just pointing out some issues from the other side.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What is a a "naturereef dentrator".?Googled it; can't find it.

misspelling:
http://natureef.com/products/denitrifiers/

gotta love this quote:

"Eliminate water changes. Most people do not have the time nor expertise to mix water and change large quantities religiously. "

If there was anything we do that doesn't require expertise, it would seem to be water changes.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I use a diy coil denitrator and I'll take exception to a couple of your points.

1) My denitrator is a set it up and basically forget it. It runs 1-2gph and I don't have to do anything.
2) true
3) mine cost all of $15-$20 and runs on an old tiny fountian pump.
4) true
5) possibly but not sure
6) Mine doesn't use sulfer so no alk issues

1. I base that on many, many threads where people have issues startign them and controlling them long term. Flow control, nitrites in effluent, they give up due to being unhappy with it, etc. I have no idea if the one he elected has that issue or not.

3. The one he has quoted is apparently fairly complex, with a controller, and cycling, etc. Different than a simple coil or sulfur denitrator, but even a simple one is more than manual dosing of vinegar.

 

[marke]

try natureef denitrator on google. I cant spell. Also did a search on RC and a few threads exist. It is not a sulfur denitrator, or a coil dentitrator. It is a small tank/sump looking thing with some type of media in it, which bacteria food is slowly added, and a dosing pump adds and removes water back into the sump slowly. The difference I see is that the bacteria has less or zero oxygen in the contained system. But I am not sure, thats why I am inquring. Another possibly similar product is aquaripure. I agree with Randy that just adding a carbon source to your system is the way to go; however these new denitrators seem to be catching on and I am not sure what makes them different.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The difference I see is that the bacteria has less or zero oxygen in the contained system. But I am not sure, thats why I am inquring. Another possibly similar product is aquaripure. I agree with Randy that just adding a carbon source to your system is the way to go; however these new denitrators seem to be catching on and I am not sure what makes them different.

That's not a real difference. All denitrators work that way, and organic carbon dosing also attains that in sand and rock where O2 is lower.

 

[CHSUB]

i used a natureef denitrator about 10 years ago, not a new product, i will tell you it worked, kept my nitrates at 0 for 3 or so years; i think. i did have lots of LR and a DSB, so when i took it off my nitrates stayed at zero...i took it off because it kept building up "snot" in the chamber and i was always fight cyano and GHA in the DT. when i removed it cyano and GHA became easier to control, and i started doing WC again. i believe the "food" for the denitrator was methanol. you can buy mine if you want!!!

 

[tmz]

misspelling:
http://natureef.com/products/denitrifiers/

gotta love this quote:

"Eliminate water changes. Most people do not have the time nor expertise to mix water and change large quantities religiously. "

If there was anything we do that doesn't require expertise, it would seem to be water changes.

As an accused cultist I found this a curious slip of the tongue with a potential double meaning in the marketing littertaure for this product:

"The Natureef cyclic denitrification reactor utilizes a specialized strain of faculative marine micro organism "œMicro Cult" to catalyze the reduction of unwanted nitrate ions to harmless nitrogen gas.":uhoh3:

Apparently it's an organic carbon doser/reactor not sulfur per the write up on the additive nitagone:
"contains organic carbon and bacterial growth enhancers".

 

[tmz]

Marke,

It could work fine. Don't know what's in the carbon source so really can't compare it to vodka or vinegar. Knowing what I'm dosing is important to me so I can avoid sugars. I don't see why a generic organic carbon source like vodka and/or vinegar couldn't be used with any doser incuding this one . The bacteia and their byproducts aren't going to stay in the box. Most of the stuff involved is miscible.