Vodka, vinegar,biopellets and other organic carbon dosing

Not a concern but they do move in the water column .Exporting them is how the nutrients are removed.
 
tmz said:
Not a concern but they do move in the water column .Exporting them is how the nutrients are removed.
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Yes, I understand that but it is great you posted that for others that might not
I believe that is a key way for removing phosphates, nitrates being converted to gas
 
Well, the bacteria take out nitrogen as well as phosphate .Nitogne from ammonia and/or N from nitrate via assimialtion. The nitrate reduction is not just a result of N2 gas bubbling out.
 
Alright, what is everybody doing with the bacteria growing in the reactors and clogging everything up??? I can go maybe 7 days tops before the bacteria completely clogs my sponges in the GFO and GAC reactors. I can remove the sponges out of my GAC and get it to last longer but not my gfo. You can't take the sponges out or it will go everywhere. The bottom sponge gets clogged up with bacteria and then it floats to the top with the media and against the top sponge and therefore can't tumble.
I dose nopox in my sump by my return pump. My return pump then pumps through a manifold which supplies all my reactors. Any suggestions??? I'm not going to continually pay to replace GFO every 7 days, besides the pain in the butt.
 
Mine did that early on; not anymore. The TLF reactor works fine for gfo now though I haven't needed to use gfosince August of 2013.. The BRS with extra sponges at the top for gac flows freely. When it was an issue I used less gac and gfo and changed them out more frequently The bacteria seem to have found other places to colonize now or are in better balance with the nutrient load. Extra live rock or sand refugia may help,too in terms of surface areas for the bacteria to grow on . I'd probably cut back on the dose to alleviate the problem and then amp it up over time if needed to keep PO4 and NO3where you want them. When it was a significant problem a few years ago , I ran gfo and gac in an old fluval canister filter with sponge filters in it which accumulated bacteria but didn't stop the flow.
 
tmz said:
Well, the bacteria take out nitrogen as well as phosphate .Nitogne from ammonia and/or N from nitrate via assimialtion. The nitrate reduction is not just a result of N2 gas bubbling out.
Click to expand...
And if you don't mind to add that it seems that there is bacteria called Polyphosphate-accumulating organisms (PAOs) prone to accumulate polyphosphates in their cells in aerobic conditions using acetate as carbon food source. This may explain why directly adding acetate could help phosphate reduction.
 
b7fig said:
Alright, what is everybody doing with the bacteria growing in the reactors and clogging everything up??? I can go maybe 7 days tops before the bacteria completely clogs my sponges in the GFO and GAC reactors. I can remove the sponges out of my GAC and get it to last longer but not my gfo. You can't take the sponges out or it will go everywhere. The bottom sponge gets clogged up with bacteria and then it floats to the top with the media and against the top sponge and therefore can't tumble.
I dose nopox in my sump by my return pump. My return pump then pumps through a manifold which supplies all my reactors. Any suggestions??? I'm not going to continually pay to replace GFO every 7 days, besides the pain in the butt.
Click to expand...

I would take out the bottom sponges in the reactors and see if that makes a difference. i have run the reactors without any sponges but turned down the flow
If you do that run the output line through a filter soak right after you change the media for about 20 sec to catch any of the fine stuff
 
Posted this in advanced forum but didn't get a reply

Can you dose too much carbon/ethanol
Puzzled that I have lost a large clam and 7 rbt's over the last three months. Also I have a large carpet anemone that shrunk up and went behind the reef.
I was dosing essential elements, iodine and iron once a week.for corals I was using Fuel, Reef Snow Kent phyto and inverts during the week individually not en masse
I was dosing 10 ml vodka daily and running pellets. I make daily water changes of 2 gal on a 200 gal system.
Tank parameters
Sal 1.026
Alk 8 Dkh
Cal 400
Mag 1400
Nitrates 2
Phosphates .002

For the last month I have stopped the vodka dosing and all supplements.. Only reef roids. I feed only raw meat and frozen mysis to the fish
My carpet anemone has come back out to the front of the tank and expand. A red gonipora has extended polyps again

I really believe that the extra carbon dosing was the problem. There doesn't seem to be much known on where the extra ethanol/acetate goes if not as simulated by bacteria
Any thoughts
 
I think acetate will be consumed and/or degraded ;ultimately to methane in nature.

0.002ppm PO4 is very low and could cause difficulty for anemones and clams. I don't know what you mean by extra carbon dosing . I have entmacea quadricolor and have had tridacna maxima florush with moderate organic carbon dosing and PO4 levels in the 0.02 ppm to 0.1ppm range with nitrate readings from 0.2 to 1pmm. Fast drops in PO4 seem top harm clams even more than corals.
 
biom said:
And if you don't mind to add that it seems that there is bacteria called Polyphosphate-accumulating organisms (PAOs) prone to accumulate polyphosphates in their cells in aerobic conditions using acetate as carbon food source. This may explain why directly adding acetate could help phosphate reduction.
Click to expand...

Yes, thanks. I think PAOs are i mentioned somewhere in the thread;maybe not ;certainly worth highlighting.
I'm always surprised when I hear assertions that organic carbon dosing doesn't reduce PO4 much. IME, the PO4 is the first to go; the NO3 takes longer. As I've noted a few times I haven't needed any gfo in over a year ; despite heavy feeding PO4 stays in the 0.02ppm to 0.4ppm range as best as I can measure. PAOs may be a significant part of the reason.
 
tmz said:
I think acetate will be consumed and/or degraded ;ultimately to methane in nature.

0.002ppm PO4 is very low and could cause difficulty for anemones and clams. I don't know what you mean by extra carbon dosing . I have entmacea quadricolor and have had tridacna maxima florush with moderate organic carbon dosing and PO4 levels in the 0.02 ppm to 0.1ppm range with nitrate readings from 0.2 to 1pmm. Fast drops in PO4 seem top harm clams even more than corals.
Click to expand...

Sorry that was a mistype phosphates are .02
I know this is conservative because I have been harvesting a lot of nuisance algae from the refugium
 
Hi, i am planning to dose vinegar for reducing nitrates. I purchased a bottle of white vinegar from a grocery store and its ingredients are Acetic acid, water, sugar and salt. Is it fine to use it? Plus it does not state the % of acetic acid.
 
mujtaba said:
Hi, i am planning to dose vinegar for reducing nitrates. I purchased a bottle of white vinegar from a grocery store and its ingredients are Acetic acid, water, sugar and salt. Is it fine to use it? Plus it does not state the % of acetic acid.
Click to expand...

yes should be fine
 
I'd stick to plain white vinegar(5% acetic acid and water). I wouldn't dose flavored brands without knowing the mix . A gram of sugar is eqaul to 20 ml of 5% vinegar in terms of organic carbon content for example.
 
Ingredients (and acetic acid concentration) in vinegar can vary from country to country and from culture to culture. I've seen vinegar with 18% concentration of AcOH in Northern European countries and with less than 5 % of acetic acid and lot of sugar in it in Asia. So without reliable information what is in it, is not good idea to put it into the thank.
 
Dry glacial acetic acid is usually available in most countries and can be mixed with water to the desired strength. It needs to be handled carefully since it's concentrated and can burn you.
 
tmz said:
It needs to be handled carefully since it's concentrated and can burn you.
Click to expand...
Yes, and smells terrible :) not only terrible but dangerous for people with respiratory problems. Does somebody tried to use sodium acetate instead of acid or vinegar? It has almost no odor (if it is pure), it will not influence the pH, and also is available in many countries as it is widely used for many purposes, and is not expensive (similar price like acetic acid).
 
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