Vodka, vinegar,biopellets and other organic carbon dosing

[oseymour]

I turned off the pellets and started with .4 ml of vodka per day, I'm now up to .8 per day. It's been just over a week but I already notice a huge difference. Colors are slowing returning, haven't lost a euphyllia over the past week, acans and zoas no longer have a white mucus around their edges. My one SPS frag is dying but this was planned to be a softy dominant tank anyway.

I made sure not to change anything else but move from pellets to vodka.

 

[PRSPLYR]

I started dosing Vodka/Vinegar at a 75/25 rate on Saturday.... started at .01 per gal (75 gal sys) and today moved up to ,02 per gal. here are my #'s for a sanity check if someone will do it.
Day 1-3 .5ml Vodka, 2ml Vinegar
Day 4-6 1ml Vodka, 4ml Vinegar
I thought it was just wishful thinking but now that Oseymour is posting results I will add my observations. I am already noticing less algae on the glass, acros are looking more colorful and PE is better than ever....Acan and Zoas are reaching for the MOON!! My red monti is definitely showing new growth, I have a red polyp purple tip frag that is encrusting big time and a RMF biohazard frag that is showing the best PE and thickening out just in the last three days. I have also been a bit more aggressive with my feeding but testing today showed a minor decrease in Nitrates ( started about 20ppm) looks like they are around 15ppm or less today (red sea pro kit so hard to tell) but the color is definately lighter than Saturday.... I did not check PO4 as it was reading .00 to .01 on Sat. and I am still running GFO so the glass check is good enough for me today - I will do a complete round of testing at day 7. I did not expect results this quickly but I am happy so far..... One question I have is even though I started a bit more aggressive (.01 per gal) than the distilled article recommends, do I still only up the dosage by .5ml (total) at day 7? Oh yeah, and the sand looks whiter and I did not think my water clarity could get better - (UV, Rox Carbon) but it has improved - or maybe the colors are just "popping" better, any way, did I say I was pleased?.....

Lou

 

[oseymour]

I started dosing Vodka/Vinegar at a 75/25 rate on Saturday.... started at .01 per gal (75 gal sys) and today moved up to ,02 per gal. here are my #'s for a sanity check if someone will do it.
Day 1-3 .5ml Vodka, 2ml Vinegar
Day 4-6 1ml Vodka, 4ml Vinegar
I thought it was just wishful thinking but now that Oseymour is posting results I will add my observations. I am already noticing less algae on the glass, acros are looking more colorful and PE is better than ever....Acan and Zoas are reaching for the MOON!! My red monti is definitely showing new growth, I have a red polyp purple tip frag that is encrusting big time and a RMF biohazard frag that is showing the best PE and thickening out just in the last three days. I have also been a bit more aggressive with my feeding but testing today showed a minor decrease in Nitrates ( started about 20ppm) looks like they are around 15ppm or less today (red sea pro kit so hard to tell) but the color is definately lighter than Saturday.... I did not check PO4 as it was reading .00 to .01 on Sat. and I am still running GFO so the glass check is good enough for me today - I will do a complete round of testing at day 7. I did not expect results this quickly but I am happy so far..... One question I have is even though I started a bit more aggressive (.01 per gal) than the distilled article recommends, do I still only up the dosage by .5ml (total) at day 7? Oh yeah, and the sand looks whiter and I did not think my water clarity could get better - (UV, Rox Carbon) but it has improved - or maybe the colors are just "popping" better, any way, did I say I was pleased?.....

Lou

Vodka dosing has worked well for me in the past it was just tedious to keep up with daily dosing. For my new build I decided to go with pellets. Once I've got the maintenance dose dialed in I'll use a dosing pump to deliver the daily dose.

I also went with straight vodka - never the vodka/vinegar mix.

 

[Reefer PT]

I have added a Marinepure Block 4"x8"x8" to my sump a while back as I got it as a free sample. I just had an Idea of drilling a 1/4" hole to the center of this block and putting the output of my dosing pump to the center of this block. Would this help the anaerobic bacteria? Would you use a separate dosing pump(got one laying around, and have the relay outlet open on the apex) and split the dose? Has anyone else done this? good idea? Bad idea? I have been dosing 40ml/day Vinegar for over a year.
Thanks
Dave

 

[tmz]

The heterotrophic bacteria encouraged byu carbon dosing are facultatative as most dentirfying bacteria are . Facultative bactera use oxygen and can use nitrate for oxygen when freee oxygen is unavialable but live in high oxygen areas very well creating anaerobic areas in shallow sand , rock pores or in their own mats.

Using block media sand, live rock et alia gives extra surface area. Boring through it should increase water flow through it but it may be porus enough to make that step[ unecesary. The water brings oxygen, and nutrients the bacteria need.

 

[tmz]

To iterate: FWIW, I've been dosing vodka and vinegar for 6 years at rate( varied it a little bit from time to time but constant for the last 2 years) of 36ml 40 proof vodka and 80 ml 5% acetic acid vinegar for 650 gallons of water volume .

 

[killinit123]

I just finished reading this whole thread very interesting stuff. i have a question though I've been thinking about carbon dosing recently. in the past 2 weeks i have seen my symphyllia coral lose all of its tissue and die my green long tentical plate recede its tissue and shrink up and my scans are all sucked in. i have never had this problem for the 3 years this system has been running (sps dominant tank) all sps except for red monti are doing incredibly well with great PE and great growth and color. just tested today and my NO3 is between .5 and .75 and my PO4 is undetectable (using API) I know api sucks but even with the degree of error I'm assuming these results wouldn't produce negative effects only lps. so my question is would carbon dosing bring these nutrients to a desired level or would it simply wipe them out of my system?

 

[tmz]

No, I don't think carbon dosing would add nutrients or help the symphylia or acans; it may make things worse if there is a deficiency in phosphate for example. Don't know why some of your lps are waning .
In the long run with consistent dosing heterotrophic bacteria and others establish a balance relative to the amount of organic carbon in the tank ;as a result you can control the nutrient levels by the size of the dose.

 

[killinit123]

No, I don't think carbon dosing would add nutrients or help the symphylia or acans; it may make things worse if there is a deficiency in phosphate for example. Don't know why some of your lps are waning .
In the long run with consistent dosing heterotrophic bacteria and others establish a balance relative to the amount of organic carbon in the tank ;as a result you can control the nutrient levels by the size of the dose.

Thanks Tom, really appreciate the response. do you have an opinion on a way for me to get the nutrient levels up safley? specifically NO3 and PO4?

 

[007Bond]

Hello Tom,...I have a question for you also. I'm following another thread in which they say that controlled raising of NO3 will lower lower your PO4. Do you know this to be true? Thanks,---Rick

 

[tmz]

Thanks Tom, really appreciate the response. do you have an opinion on a way for me to get the nutrient levels up safley? specifically NO3 and PO4?

Corals need nitrogen, phosphate, and a source of organic carbon( photosynthesis meets the need for organic C to a greater or lesser degree depending on the coral but none meet the need 100% via photosynthesis). You seem to have adequate nitrogen as evident in the NO3 readings but PO4 may be too low. Adding organic carbon will encourage bacteria that need and use PO4 and nitrogen and organic C and could make any PO4 deficiency worse. Though it's possible the corals are missing some orgnanic C too
At this point , I'd just add a little extra food since it will add all 3 major nutrients(C,N and P and other useful major and minor ones.

 

[killinit123]

Corals need nitrogen, phosphate, and a source of organic carbon( photosynthesis meets the need for organic C to a greater or lesser degree depending on the coral but none meet the need 100% via photosynthesis). You seem to have adequate nitrogen as evident in the NO3 readings but PO4 may be too low. Adding organic carbon will encourage bacteria that need and use PO4 and nitrogen and organic C and could make any PO4 deficiency worse. Though it's possible the corals are missing some orgnanic C too
At this point , I'd just add a little extra food since it will add all 3 major nutrients(C,N and P and other useful major and minor ones.

Thanks again Tom, I feed a mixture of various frozen food exclusively once a day. spirulina- 3 cubes, mega marine algae- 1 cube, blood worms- 1 cube, and mysis- 2 cubes, all hykari brand. I will start to feed twice a day and see if that makes a difference at all. once again thank you!! ~kyle

 

[tmz]

Oh, I didn't know you were feeding that well. Probably wouldn't increase it. Are you using phosphate removers?

 

[killinit123]

Oh, I didn't know you were feeding that well. Probably wouldn't increase it. Are you using phosphate removers?

yea i upped my bioload about a 2 months ago. i added a file fish to help rid my aptasia problem, which he did for the most part at least. no phosphate removers besides cheato in my refuge, also chemi pure but they havent been changed in over 6 months

 

[tmz]

With that bioload and no phosphate removers in use I wouldn't expect a true phosaphte deficiency to be an issue;plenty comes in with the food and waste in the system . Don't know why the plate and symphylia receded but doubt it's from a lack of phosphorus or excess giventeh undetectable level . Might double check the test.

 

[markalot]

For what it's worth I'm having the same issue with some LPS. I've tried to correct by dropping vinegar to 5ml per day and feeding like crazy, alternating Reef Roids and Reef Chili along with the standard fish food until I can get nutrients back up.

I can only guess but for the longest time it was all I could do to keep PO4 low so i suspect it was leaching from the rocks and once that was done PO4 dropped too low requiring me to make adjustments.

 

[tmz]

Early as noted in earlier posts I noticed some recission issues with certain lps. It may be the PO4 drop or a change in the mix of organics in the tank.

 

[killinit123]

With that bioload and no phosphate removers in use I wouldn't expect a true phosaphte deficiency to be an issue;plenty comes in with the food and waste in the system . Don't know why the plate and symphylia receded but doubt it's from a lack of phosphorus or excess giventeh undetectable level . Might double check the test.

For what it's worth I'm having the same issue with some LPS. I've tried to correct by dropping vinegar to 5ml per day and feeding like crazy, alternating Reef Roids and Reef Chili along with the standard fish food until I can get nutrients back up.

I can only guess but for the longest time it was all I could do to keep PO4 low so i suspect it was leaching from the rocks and once that was done PO4 dropped too low requiring me to make adjustments.

hmmm im still not sure whats going on.. I lost my symphylia the flesh must have came off during the night.. would this cause a toxin issue maybe?? my acans and plate are still receded but not dying from what i can see. gorgonian and favites are fine all sps are fine except for one purple rimmed monti. today is water change day so i may do more than i usually do clean out the sump and do a complete test before and after the water change. will keep everyone posted.. once again thanks for the responses and info it is very much appreciated.

I know this will not help with my low nutrient levels but it may be a good way to eliminate other factors that could be playing a role as to what is going on with my lps. and then i can worry about po4 and no3 after i rule some other possibilities out. also i noticed my cheato starting to recede a little as well so is it safe to assume po4 is too low to support my cheato? im not sure how that could have happened because my cheato always grew out of control to the point where i had to trim it every couple of weeks.

 

[biecacka]

hey Tom, i found my way over here! so here is my tank situation, 240 gallon tank, 20 fish with more coming. I have been running a becket skimmer with no luck. so i switched over to a Bubble King Double Cone 200 that should be arriving 12/23. My nitrates are 75+ in my tank and my P04 is almost undetectable somehow. this is per the test at my LFS so i can assume or hope it is right. i am running GFO to combat that. I recently removed my sump from under the tank and put it behind the tank which allowed me to put filter socks into use and will allow easy access to the sump where as before there was NO access.
So I am putting a marinepure block in the sump to provide more surface area to colonize bacteria, thinking about trying some all in one pellets that i have access to as well. I dosed vinegar in my old tank with luck but never had nitrates this high. my question is would the block, pellets, and vinegar/vodka dosing be too much to do at once?

corey

 

[Johnb123]

Which is better vodka, vinegar, or sugar?