Vortech and acrylic tanks

[jnarowe]

I forgot about the dry box you were planning. Did I tell you I think that is a mistake???? Oh yeah, I did.

If you don't ventilate that box, I am scared what might occur. You will increase ambient temp. well above 80F IMO. PLEASE report back on the results...is the dry box clear or black?

 

[triggerfish1976]

Yes you but I am never one to listen to reason.:lol:
Its black and it will be open top and located close enough to the tank's cooling fans so ventilation shouldn't be an issue.

 

[reefsafe]

Triggerish-can' wait to see your drybox. Please post pics when you have finished it!!

 

[triggerfish1976]

The dryboxes are done so I will try and post pics tonight when I get home. I might even try and install them and get the pumps running.

 

[jnarowe]

can't wait to see them. if you can successfully execute the dry box, that would be a win for Vortech users. Since I haven't seen one yet, I am a bit skeptical that it will work without causing damage, but I do believe that if the box is ventilated, you should be good-to-go. At least you will be able to use the Vortechs with some limited locations in a tank of more than 3/4" acrylic.

 

[reefsafe]

Trigger-How thick of acrylic did you use? How are you going to mount it to your tank? Thanks.

 

[triggerfish1976]

1/4" thick sides with a lip on the top.
I am going to mount the boxes to my eurobracing via vinyl screws. I had the original tank manufacturer cut out small square holes for waveboxes so they could be easily be installed and removed for cleaning but I never ended up using the holes so I thought they would allow the proper ventilation for the dry boxes.

 

[triggerfish1976]

Here is a pic of the two different shaped boxes that I am playing around with.

One is for corners in the tank and the other will be mounted in the middle section on the back of the tank.
We designed them with facets so I can angle them and big enough to mount multiple pumps in one box.

 

[jnarowe]

Very cool boxes. Did you build them?

And multiple pumps in one chamber...hmmmm, I don't know how that will turn out, but I am interested to see what the result is. Sorry for the stupid question, but is your tank in a tank room? I can't remember what you said.

Seems to me there will be quite a bit of force on them so anchoring will be a very important aspect of this install.

 

[triggerfish1976]

My tank is an in-wall setup so yes it has its own room.
I am also concerned about the force of the pumps so I will have to play around with it once I get them installed.
I have four boxes for four vortechs but I may only install two boxes for now. I hope to have them up and running in the next couple of days so I will let you know.

 

[jnarowe]

I would bet that even with the enclosed box, you could mount a small fan facing down into it and ventilate the box enough to cool the motors.

Good luck!

 

[chatme32]

I can't believe the reply from the manufacture !

I can't believe the reply from the manufacture !

I can't believe the reply from the manufacture !

Who cares about how thick , how much pressure , how it was built or why it caused the problem.

1) It was holding water and no problem other than were the pumps were installed.

2) Did they do testing and find out were the limits on how there pumps could be installed and inform buyers on what kind of tank designs not to be installed on ?...NO

3) If this was your car that someone dented then told you if the metal would have been thicker it would not have gotten damaged so all were going to do is throw a patch on it. would you be ok with this? NO

4) Now that they know this limit that a customer had to find out for them. Do you think it's ok to offer a patch up job on the tank ? or say thank you for telling us about this design limit so we can
inform are customers about this before someone gets hurt from a possible blowout and we want to have a new tank built and installed for you on us ? yes

5) Will the reply from the manufacture hurt sales 1000 folds over the cost of making this right with there customer ? YOU BET!

I may not know the whole story here but I do know this, I will not buy any.

 

[jnarowe]

chatme32: I can appreciate that sentiment.

Well the good news is that I got a message from Eco-Tech this evening proposing 3 viable solutions. They are not "perfect" but I think we are at a point that with a little more discussion we will work it out. I cannot go into the details at this point as I have not decided on which solution will work the best for me, but I feel we are moving forward and will be able to put this behind us fairly soon.

 

[triggerfish1976]

Good to hear.

 

[jtarmitage]

jnarowe, do you think this is only an issue if running near 100% at constant speed, or do you think it will still create problems in the other modes, such as wavecrest, lagoon, pulse, etc?

 

[sfsuphysics]

Hmm makes me wonder how hot the vortech pumps actually get. Not to dismiss anything jnarowe had occur to his tank, but the spacer + rubber "stick" pad has got to reduce the temperature somewhat from what the temp of the driver actually is.

 

[jtarmitage]

He mentioned that he couldn't use the spacer because it's 3/4" acrylic. If I run mine at constant 100% it gets rather warm. I can still touch it without getting burned, but it's warm. On the other modes it seem only mildly warm, but what do I know.

 

[jnarowe]

I was told by Eco-Tech to ONLY run them in pulse mode to keep the pumps from getting too hot.

My experience has shown in my situation that running on pulse at 100% and a mid-range frequency will create motor surface temps. of between 122F and 129F. There is some variation do to whatever differences exist between the motors themselves, and that's why I give a range.

I also have found that @ approximately 80 - 85% and at a mid-range frequency, they run between 121F and 124.5F as measured tonight on three different pumps with an ambient temp. of 78F.

I also measured my two pumps running @ 100% with dedicated fans, and they were at 102F and 104.5F. These tend to swing between 100F and 109F depending on ambient conditions. And this is why I asked Eco-Tech to attached a cooling fan to the motor.

With a fan mounted as an "upgrade", I don't think any acrylic tank owner would ever have to worry about damage to their tank, provided there was some code to stop the motor should it over-limit. Kind of like a cut-out used on race cars etc. I have no idea what the architecture of the drivers is, so I can't speak to the viability of that idea, but I firmly believe that an attached cooling fan would work VERY well.

Eco-Tech has also stated that the WWD runs the pumps more efficiently and that should translate to cooler temps. but in my situation I haven't had the chance to test that out.

 

[jnarowe]

Mike, keep in mind that I am measuring with an infrared unit so there is some question about how acurate it really can be. That is why I give a range of results. And the design of the pump is such that the exterior temp. is the result of drawing the heat off the motor itself. I don't know enough about physics to give you a credible answer as to how hot the interior temp. really is.

I am sure Eco-Tech could tell us that since I would guess they have a way to monitor it in test pumps. I can tell you that when I took one apart, I was impressed with its physical simplicity and solid construction. If I were to put it side-by-side with a disassembled Tunze, the comparison is laughable IMO.

 

[jtarmitage]

It would seem that some simple venting on the motor housing itself would be sufficient, but I like the idea of a 'SILENT' mounted fan. Have they got anywhere with that idea?
Also, do you have any pics of your dedicated fan setup?