BreadmanMike
New member
Amen to that.
Vortech and acrylic tanks
- Thread starter triggerfish1976
- Start date
Amen to that.
triggerfish1976
New member
That crazing is unreal. I am surprised that you are still using these and looking to add more.
jnarowe
New member
I would add more if Eco-Tech stepped up and fixed the heat issue. It would be a fairly simple add-on that cold be upcharged as well. I really like the flow from these pumps. But obviously there are some issues with them.
To be honest, I was sorely disappointed with the WWD as well. It is a sub-set of what one would expect in controlling high-end powerheads. Seriously no night mode? You can't even walk in between them without them losing communication, and what we saw in the old MACNAA video of a central controller...well that went "poof" now didn't it?
To be honest, I was sorely disappointed with the WWD as well. It is a sub-set of what one would expect in controlling high-end powerheads. Seriously no night mode? You can't even walk in between them without them losing communication, and what we saw in the old MACNAA video of a central controller...well that went "poof" now didn't it?
Well,
I am sitting on 3 of them with the battery backup still in the box waiting to go on a new 300 gallon 10x2x2 acrylic that should be here next week. How long were they on your tank before it caused the problem? Is anyone else using these on acrylic tanks without any issues? You mentioned a way to fix the heat issue, what would that be? If not Vortech, what power heads and how many would anyone suggest for a tank my size keeping mostly softies and lps?
Confused in Texas
I am sitting on 3 of them with the battery backup still in the box waiting to go on a new 300 gallon 10x2x2 acrylic that should be here next week. How long were they on your tank before it caused the problem? Is anyone else using these on acrylic tanks without any issues? You mentioned a way to fix the heat issue, what would that be? If not Vortech, what power heads and how many would anyone suggest for a tank my size keeping mostly softies and lps?
Confused in Texas
triggerfish1976
New member
It is possible that the acrylic thickness or type was part of the problem like we discussed on the phone. Given your tank dimensions, 3/4" is pretty thin so there is already undo stress being put on the acrylic. Add the heat from the Vortech and I can see why it would have crazed.
If you consider the heat stress that MH lighting puts on the tops of our tanks, you would think that the heat generated by these pumps would not be an issue. Anytime I have seen acrylic fail due to excess heat from lighting it is because it wasn't thick enough or the tank was not manuf. properly.
With all of this being said, I agree that Eco Tech should do something about the excess heat. Let me know if they figure out a way to resolve the issue.
EcoTech Marine
.Registered Member
Jon, I’m saddened to see that our efforts to correct this problem so far have not satisfied you. We have offered to repair the tank for you at our cost, including sending a professional to your door to drill out the areas of crazing and install bulkheads.
This is the first and only case of crazing on an acrylic tank out of thousands of VorTechs sold, therefore, we have been doing a lot of research to determine the route cause. Every single acrylic tank manufacturer that we have spoken with has stated that they would not build an acrylic tank of yours’ size (8x5x3’) from ¾†material without first abandoning any type of warranty, implicit or implied. It has been disclosed to us that top bracing will not reduce the stress which will occur along the body of the tank, it will only reduce deflection along the top. We do believe that your tank’s panes are very stressed considering its design and that this is likely a large contributing factor as to why it is the only known case of crazing that our company has experienced. Also, the fact that your tank room is above average temperature at 80deg will lead to our pumps operating at the maximum of their spec’d parameters. We feel it is a combination of all of these underlying factors that has caused this isolated incident. As was mentioned earlier, the working temperature of acrylic is 180deg, our pump is designed to operate well below that temperature to ensure a margin of safety. There is no published data about the working temperature of acrylic under load.
EcoTech Marine is not an acrylic aquarium manufacturer and until recently when we began researching your issue more thoroughly we did not realize that your tank was designed below generally accepted standards. We are not trying to accuse you of having done anything wrong at all or even displace the responsibility entirely upon you as evidenced by our actions to rectify this situation. However, we are simply stating the truth and trying to reflect upon this issue accurately and fairly: other acrylic aquariums don’t craze- yours has. We are trying to put the puzzle together and understand the complete picture.
We believe that the option to repair your tank is the most appropriate action for us both considering what you have disclosed about the hassles associated with removing this aquarium from its stand and installing a new one. We have offered to handle and coordinate this repair for you.
Jon- We are trying to work with you and we are trying to solve this problem as quickly as possible. I called you on Monday morning and have not received a return phone call yet. Even though this issue is obviously stressful for the both of us, we believe that if you want to resolve it that you should work with us to help do so, this means returning my phone calls even if you have been busy; we can always coordinate a time after hours to discuss this. I do not believe it is fair to insinuate here on the board that we are hanging you out to dry. This is simply not the case.
-Tim
This is the first and only case of crazing on an acrylic tank out of thousands of VorTechs sold, therefore, we have been doing a lot of research to determine the route cause. Every single acrylic tank manufacturer that we have spoken with has stated that they would not build an acrylic tank of yours’ size (8x5x3’) from ¾†material without first abandoning any type of warranty, implicit or implied. It has been disclosed to us that top bracing will not reduce the stress which will occur along the body of the tank, it will only reduce deflection along the top. We do believe that your tank’s panes are very stressed considering its design and that this is likely a large contributing factor as to why it is the only known case of crazing that our company has experienced. Also, the fact that your tank room is above average temperature at 80deg will lead to our pumps operating at the maximum of their spec’d parameters. We feel it is a combination of all of these underlying factors that has caused this isolated incident. As was mentioned earlier, the working temperature of acrylic is 180deg, our pump is designed to operate well below that temperature to ensure a margin of safety. There is no published data about the working temperature of acrylic under load.
EcoTech Marine is not an acrylic aquarium manufacturer and until recently when we began researching your issue more thoroughly we did not realize that your tank was designed below generally accepted standards. We are not trying to accuse you of having done anything wrong at all or even displace the responsibility entirely upon you as evidenced by our actions to rectify this situation. However, we are simply stating the truth and trying to reflect upon this issue accurately and fairly: other acrylic aquariums don’t craze- yours has. We are trying to put the puzzle together and understand the complete picture.
We believe that the option to repair your tank is the most appropriate action for us both considering what you have disclosed about the hassles associated with removing this aquarium from its stand and installing a new one. We have offered to handle and coordinate this repair for you.
Jon- We are trying to work with you and we are trying to solve this problem as quickly as possible. I called you on Monday morning and have not received a return phone call yet. Even though this issue is obviously stressful for the both of us, we believe that if you want to resolve it that you should work with us to help do so, this means returning my phone calls even if you have been busy; we can always coordinate a time after hours to discuss this. I do not believe it is fair to insinuate here on the board that we are hanging you out to dry. This is simply not the case.
-Tim
jnarowe
New member
JStorey: The original Vortechs I had caused crazing after being run at 100% on my tank for a short time. This was superficial crazing and at the time, Eco-Tech told me it was because of my tank room conditions (sometimes reaching 80F) and recommeded that I turn them down. This worked.
What you see in the pics is the result of a malfunction IMO.
triggerfish1976: Thickness of acrylic does not change its inherent properties. Sure, if the piece is 1/4" thick and you have a 400W halide on top of it, the acrylic will fail faster, but in this case, we had a pump supposedly operating below the fatigue point of acrylic on 3/4" material. My point is, I believe the pump malfunctioned and the heat spiked. Any thickness of acrylic will craze if you place something that is 140F on it for an extended period.
I am going to run a test on a 1" piece of acrylic under no stress from pressure with a Vortech and post the results.
What you see in the pics is the result of a malfunction IMO.
triggerfish1976: Thickness of acrylic does not change its inherent properties. Sure, if the piece is 1/4" thick and you have a 400W halide on top of it, the acrylic will fail faster, but in this case, we had a pump supposedly operating below the fatigue point of acrylic on 3/4" material. My point is, I believe the pump malfunctioned and the heat spiked. Any thickness of acrylic will craze if you place something that is 140F on it for an extended period.
I am going to run a test on a 1" piece of acrylic under no stress from pressure with a Vortech and post the results.
triggerfish1976
New member
I read your build thread and it clarified some things. For some reason I thought that you had more than one area that had crazing but since it was just the one, the heat spike may be a viable explanation.
jnarowe
New member
Well I do have more than one area, but the others are from the original install and really are just superficial. This is the only one that has gone to any sort of extreme. Unfortunately I cannot get a good pic of the superficial ones to show what that is. There are essentially 100% very lightly crazed areas where the Vortechs were originally running at 100%.
Those are high up on the tank walls and I don't want to drill them out because I won't be able to hide them easily.
BTW, I have already responded to Tim's above post in my own thread where he posted an identical message. Anyone interested can see that response at the bottom of this page.
Those are high up on the tank walls and I don't want to drill them out because I won't be able to hide them easily.
BTW, I have already responded to Tim's above post in my own thread where he posted an identical message. Anyone interested can see that response at the bottom of this page.
triggerfish1976
New member
How high? Crazing from lighting generally shows up near the top of the tank as well which is usually the weakest point.
jnarowe
New member
About 12 - 14" from the top. More or less at the 2/3 mark. If you are suspecting that it is from the light, they are perfect round disks that were directly under the motors.
Then I have a couple that are around the half way mark, and the real bad one is centered at the 1/3 mark. I will have to drain my tank down to about 9" of water to effect a repair.
Then I have a couple that are around the half way mark, and the real bad one is centered at the 1/3 mark. I will have to drain my tank down to about 9" of water to effect a repair.
triggerfish1976
New member
Even though you discouraged it I am going to try these out in a drybox sort of setup to see how they do. I will keep everyone updated.
triggerfish1976
New member
The drybox is actually designed similar to an internal overflow box but smaller so it allows me to mount them in the tank since my sides are 1". If crazing is an issue I will only mess up the side of the box and not the tank itself.
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