Wanting a Dragonet

Try to find a fellow reefer who is tearing down a well established tank with a mandy in it. USUALLY when they are in the tank for a long time and healthy (and the owner feeds a diverse spread including diff frozen foods) the mandy is already eating frozen. I got my mandy 5 months ago from a reefer who tore his tank down after more than a year. The mandy was 10 bucks and was eating brine, mysis, bloodworms all frozen. I turn of fthe powerheads, feed the opposite side of the tank (of where the mandy is at), then when all the fish go to that side i direct feed the mandy and he eats it up. He is awesome to watch and one of my faves.

My advice is be patient and check your local club forums and post on there if anyone is tearing down their tank w/ a mandy you want it. Eventually you'll get him and you'll be happy you waited.

My setup has about 80 lbs of LR, a 7 gal fuge w/ pods (decent amount), but I also house about 4 wrasses in my main which also eat pods so they are slim pickings.
 
There is one guy that I have read of that was rearing captive bred mandarin dragonettes. The spawn are pelegic and that makes it very difficult to do. He was doing this with three mandarins in a 300 gallon tank.

I don't think it's reasonable to count on having a thriving copepod population in a 20g, although it probably is possible. With as many times as I've had rotifer cultures, and phyto cultures crash, the same perils will haunt you in a small tank.

One report that I read said that an adult size mandarin can eat upto 500-600 copepods a day! I think if your set on it, the best course of action is to find one that eats frozen foods, and/or keep a culture of rotifers going, they will eat those too, and rotifers are easy to culture with a light, and a couple of 2L coke bottles, and a phyto culture going.

Also, ReefNutrition has those live copepods in a bottle, but they also have this thick paste like material that comes in a bottle (lots of it) that the rep said they've had good success getting mandarins to eat it.

But, this is just FYI, my opinion would to be to recommend steering clear of a mandarin in a small tank.

Good luck Mitch!

ltz,
Andy
 
Boy that video from melev's reef is hilarious to watch those greedy tangs try to get that mandarin food in the jar! They're so fat and gluttonous!
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12551792#post12551792 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rjsilvers
Maybe the OP never returned because of all the bickering caused by people incorrectly giving him advice about how great mandarins are at surviving in small tanks vs. people who are honestly giving their assessment of the situation.

I bet I could keep you in a box for quite a while. And then I'd come on RC in a week and be like: Told you guys. My kar93 is still alive! HAHA!

And then everyone would be like: Wow. rjsilvers kept a kar93 alive in a box. It CAN be done.

And then I would come back in 2 weeks and be like: hey guys my kar93 isn't looking so hot. i think he's sick.

And then my kar93 would die of starvation and I'd have to get another one because they look soooo cool.
Click to expand...

I believe you're the one incorrectly giving information, not others. There's nobody here saying he should do it, only giving information saying it can be done. And for the record, I've seen many instances of this fish taking frozen prepared and living for years, I chose not to waste my time digging up threads, bash away if you want, but if you look, you'll find them. There are more reef boards than just this one...

Keeping me in a box is not the equal of keeping a mandarin in a small tank. I need space to thrive, the mandarin does not. The limiting factor for this fish is food source, if you have one that east prepared foods, this is moot as long as you feed a varied diet (which if eating prepared foods, not difficult).

If you want to equate your box example, then as another user posted, it would be similar to keeping a tang in a small tank, different story, not applicable here.

My problem is not that you think it's a bad idea, I agree, my problem is that you refuse to admit it can be done while at the same time inflicting no harm to the animal. This is completely false. 20g vs 29 gallons means nothing to pod population, neither will realistically be able to support the fish with pods alone. The reason it was thriving in Melev's tank was because it ate prepared foods. A 20g tank is a fine size for a fish that barely swims and grows to 2". It's all about the food...maybe only 1 in 20 accept frozen, but they still do.
 
my comparison to the tang in a 20 gallon wasnt a comparison for swimming room. it was just that out of dumb luck you'd probably eventually get a fish that would survive under far less than optimum conditions. same as dumb luck to find a mandarin that eats prepared foods.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12552854#post12552854 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by useskaforevil
my comparison to the tang in a 20 gallon wasnt a comparison for swimming room. it was just that out of dumb luck you'd probably eventually get a fish that would survive under far less than optimum conditions. same as dumb luck to find a mandarin that eats prepared foods.
Click to expand...

My dumb luck was looking as asking for one that took prepared foods. It wasn't dumb luck AT ALL. It was being patient and asking.

Brandon
 
Yeah, I remember a thread a while back where somebody assumed keeping a fish in a pico was the same as shipping it.
 
Interesting read.

My first shocking moment is the statement that "many mandarins are captive bred". With all of my research, I do believe that Matthew Wittenrich is the only one that has had success on a large scale in the US. Now, this is fully published success, I'm sure some hobbyists have been knocking down the doors of feeding the larvae. Most mandarins for retail sale are still harvested from the ocean, wonder if anyone here even realizes how: http://en.microcosmaquariumexplorer.com/wiki/Mandarin_Harvest_Realities

In regards to feeding them, if you are willing to take the time, they can be relatively easy to wean over to prepared foods. Many folks at MOFIB are having a go with pairs in a captive breeding program. These pairs are kept in smaller aquariums. To wean them, place them in a breeders net and you can then have direct control over their food sources. Start with enriched live brine, move to enriched frozen brine, then frozen mysis, etc.

Personally, my male was already on prepared foods, so when I recently purchased my female he "taught" her relatively quickly. They both eat frozen Hikari enriched mysis and other foods out of a Melev style "diner". I have videos to prove it. Both are fat, I have pictures to prove it. I also culture "Tiggerpods" (T. californicus) in a bucket and they are PROLIFIC. I culture them right in with rotifers and they can be strained with a typical Florida Aqua Farms sieve. My tiggers feed on Cyclopleeze, phyto, and detritus...I would assume to varying degrees.

Now, if you don't seriously plan on weaning them over to prepared foods immediately...leave them in the ocean. IMO, a refugium plumbed on a small tank isn't likely to help.
 
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I know that I should let this thread die but I want to share my experiences and another positive. I got 2 scooter blennies from Petco. I know why did I support that store bla bla bla? The woman was telling someone else that they blennies would eat frozen foods. We both asked if she could show us and she agreed. There were four or five in the tank by themselves. She thawed a cube and pored it in. They went nuts, and would swim to catch the mysis and then sink to the bottom chewing, then swim back up for more. I was sold and so I bought two a male and female. I was going to put them in my 55 with a fuge, but thought, what the hell. I put them in my 8 gal biocube with lots of rock and rubble in the back two chambers. I figured if they start to look bad I’ll just do as I planed and put them in the 55.

That was about a year ago. The female did end up dyeing but that was because she ate anything that floated down from the top of the tank. One time it just happened to be a small bristle worm that went through the pump. After she ate that she never ate again.
The male however is still fat and kicking. I got him another friend in the form of a purple fire fish and they are doing great. I agree that its not a good idea to buy them with the intent of “training” them but they can be healthy.

With all that said I, plan to move him to my 120 when that gets set up in a month or two because right now I have to feed him three to four times a day. I still see him eating amphipods every time they blow into the tank which is more often that I would have thought possible being in such a small space.
 
this is a classic mandarin thread! i love reading these things.
in summary, is it possible to keep them in smaller tanks on prepared food? yes.
if i buy one at the LFS will it eat prepared food? almost never.
can i train it to eat prepared food when i buy one? possibly, but I would have a back up plan. the people that succeed are incredibly skilled or incredibly lucky.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12554102#post12554102 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by HoopsGuru
Interesting read.

My first shocking moment is the statement that "many mandarins are captive bred". With all of my research, I do believe that Matthew Wittenrich is the only one that has had success on a large scale in the US. Now, this is fully published success, I'm sure some hobbyists have been knocking down the doors of feeding the larvae. Most mandarins for retail sale are still harvested from the ocean, wonder if anyone here even realizes how: http://en.microcosmaquariumexplorer.com/wiki/Mandarin_Harvest_Realities

In regards to feeding them, if you are willing to take the time, they can be relatively easy to wean over to prepared foods. Many folks at MOFIB are having a go with pairs in a captive breeding program. These pairs are kept in smaller aquariums. To wean them, place them in a breeders net and you can then have direct control over their food sources. Start with enriched live brine, move to enriched frozen brine, then frozen mysis, etc.

Personally, my male was already on prepared foods, so when I recently purchased my female he "taught" her relatively quickly. They both eat frozen Hikari enriched mysis and other foods out of a Melev style "diner". I have videos to prove it. Both are fat, I have pictures to prove it. I also culture "Tiggerpods" (T. californicus) in a bucket and they are PROLIFIC. I culture them right in with rotifers and they can be strained with a typical Florida Aqua Farms sieve. My tiggers feed on Cyclopleeze, phyto, and detritus...I would assume to varying degrees.

Now, if you don't seriously plan on weaning them over to prepared foods immediately...leave them in the ocean. IMO, a refugium plumbed on a small tank isn't likely to help.
Click to expand...

Very awesome post, man. I am VERY interested in trying to breed marine animals now more than ever. Maybe even eventually mandarins. ;)

Brandon
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12554358#post12554358 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hawkeyes
this is a classic mandarin thread! i love reading these things.
in summary, is it possible to keep them in smaller tanks on prepared food? yes.
if i buy one at the LFS will it eat prepared food? almost never.
can i train it to eat prepared food when i buy one? possibly, but I would have a back up plan. the people that succeed are incredibly skilled or incredibly lucky.
Click to expand...

I would not call myself or others I know extremely lucky or skilled, just able and willing to follow a protocol.

When I brought my female home from the LFS a few weeks ago, it was already looking to feed in my "Dip N Pour" box. So, I added some tiggerpods before starting my culture and she ate right there on the spot. By the time we get them from the LFS especially, they ARE hungry and ready to eat. Pop them in the breeders net and start a brine shrimp culture or buy some adults and enrich them. The net is perfect, the current of the tank keeps the food against the net...and since mandarins are substrate feeders (as in they pick off of substrates) it is right there for them. They are NOT going to turn their nose at live brine because it is not a copepod. And if it does, buy some tiggerpods to get started and back up the process to them (tiggerpods, then mix in some live brine, then frozen brine, etc.). If none of this is available, pass on the fish...simple as that.
 
This is just my personal experience. I kept a mandarin in a 20 gallon for three years in the late 1990s without a refugium. In all likelihood the mandarin did eat frozen but I never actually saw it doing it. When I broke down the tank it was fat and happy and I sold it back to the LFS.

More recently, I didn't add a mandarin to my 37gallon until roughly six months after it (and the 20 gallon refugium) had been established (feb. 2006). She has always thrived and is fat. It helps if you don't keep other fish who will compete with the mandarin for pods, i.e. wrasses, other dragonets, etc.

To say it is impossible to keep a mandarin in a small tank for just a few months without it starving are flat out wrong.

That being said, this is just my personal experience and I would not recommend that a new hobbiest try a mandarin in a small tank BUT like others' experience has shown it is definitely possible to keep a mandarin in a smaller system as long as you're willing to provide for its nutrition.
 
IMO, getting the fish to eat prepared foods is the "easy" part. Getting them to survive on a food supply that is limited to our feeding schedule is the hard part.

Mandarins have small appetites and high metabolism. They don't consume large amounts in infrequent feedings, but constantly hunt and eat multiple small meals in a minute. IME, even when you get them to accept frozen and pellet, they will only eat a small amount.

It's not that you can't reasonably expect to change the behavior, it's that you can't reasonably expect to change their physiology. You can get them to eat frozen and pellet, but you can't change their metabolism.

The majority of long term (several years) success stories that you hear are from folks that either have A) a system that produces enough live food for the fish, or B) a combination of a system that produces some live food and a fish that accepts supplemental feedings of prepared foods. The alternative of a system that provides minimal to no live food is to feed them several small amounts of prepared food throughout the day, and that just isn't practical over the long term.

Are there any folks here that have been keeping mandarins in small tanks for more than 2 years?
 
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