drummereef
Team RC
So other than food sources, what would be the recommended process for supplementing NO3 to allow the PO4/NO3 balance to be achieved?
Warner Marine Now Has A Pellet Product
- Thread starter Stuart60611
- Start date
poolkeeper1
New member
But don't you do water changes anyway? This seems counter to good husbandry IME. I don't test for Nitrate very often but the EB is doing a fine job without any adding of No3 in my case. I have stayed focused on the Po4 reduction and this has worked very well so far.
Maybe as you say the strain of bacteria is important or the types may play a major role in being successful in Po4 reduction. Or maybe it's just the combination of bio load, Types of and amount of food added to the system.
Very different results for many that have tried using this product, For some it never works or they give up prematurely before it has a beneficial result on their system. Just too many variables for it to be a one size fits all IMO
Bill:hmm2:
Ain't that a biyatch!!! I wish there was a "way" a "process" that would work for ALL systems... but then it would not be much fun huh?
I'm not giving up on EB yet, I really like the theory behind the redfield ratio, so I am going to keep it in mind.
What do you guys think about dosing bac from different vendors RIGHT INTO the reactor to boost diversity?
poolkeeper1
New member
Microbactor 7
Microbactor 7
Jack, A friend is using Microbactor 7 with good results you may want to try this if you want to boost your bacteria level/type.
Bill:wave:
Microbactor 7
Jack, A friend is using Microbactor 7 with good results you may want to try this if you want to boost your bacteria level/type.
Bill:wave:
Stuart60611
New member
Lots of people who have macro planted tanks dose nitrate b/c they cannot otherwise maintain their macro algae. As indicated in the below thread, many dose nitrate for the same reason one would dose nitrate when using the pellets -- namely to increase nitrate so that the bacteria can uptake residual phosphate. When you have a very heavily planted macro tank, you sometimes have very low nitrate and therefore over time phosphate builds up because the bacteria cannot take up the phosphate since they have become nitrate limited. For examples of what the macro planted tank folks dose, see the below thread. I just took a minute to do a search and posted the first thread on the subject I found. I know that there are other, and perhaps more informative, threads here on this subject matter.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1521633&highlight=add+nitrates
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Stuart60611
New member
It is, indeed, possible that the bacterial populations of one's pellets could shift to dominance of a species of bacteria which is not as efffective as others in uptaking phosphate. Dosing live bacteria under such circumstances can help. However, such dosing may only temporarilly shift the bacterial populations to dominance of the desired species and ceasing to dose the live bacteria may result in the populations shifting back to where they were before one dosed the live bacteria. As mentioned above, there are so many variables that come into play as to why a particular species of bacteria may dominate a certain system. We plainly just do not understand how to manipulate this yet.
drummereef
Team RC
Apparently Kent Botanica Nitro is what freshwater guys use and a few saltwater guys are incorporating now. I get the idea of the balance between N & P, just don't know if I'm brave enough to try it. :lol:
http://www.wetpetsusa.com/keboni16.html
Stuart60611
New member
Yes, only to the extent that the system's bacterial mass is unable to uptake all of the nitrate first. Bacteria in suffcient numbers often are able to eat nitrate faster and before the micro algae can. Nitrate only fuels nuisance micro algae when the bacterial mass is insufficient to uptake the nitrate before the algae can. In my experience, phosphate by far is a bigger source of fuel for nusiance micro algae than nitrate. Moreover, as is clear from this discussion, phosphate is also much more difficult to export from the system than nitrate, particularly because of the redfield ratio concept.
In terms of dosing nitrate to feed macro algae as opposed to nusiance micro algae, many species of macro algae, like bacteria, are able to uptake nitrate faster and more effectively than nuisance micro algae. This really is no different than maintaining a lit refugium with macro algae. The idea is that the macro algae out competes the nusiance micro algae for the nitrate. Likewise, those with planted macro algae tanks add nitrate to their system to feed the macro algae under the guise that the macro algae will be able to out compete the nuisance micro algae for the nitrate added. By adding nitrate in this fashion, one can also have the macro algae uptake more phosphate pursuant to the redfield ratio concept.
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while i agree with most of what you are saying i think there is one major flaw in it. bacteria are not macroalgae. in fact microalgae and macroalgae are much more closely related (photsynthesis) than bacteria are to either one. so back to my original point, if adding nitrates encourages macroalgae growth (planted aquariums) than i would assume that in our aquariums the nitrate would encourage microalgae rather than bacteria.
From what i gather you are correct, macro/micro algae will feed on EXCESS nitrate that bacteria does not consume. I think for our purposes we would be adding very small amounts on N03 to get the ratio back in balance, which would be consumed faster by bacteria.
TheFishMan65
New member
From what I have read bacteria wins the battle for nitrate, then macro algae, and finally micro alge. I think that is what Patax88 is saying. So my $0.02 is +1
Yup ... it's actually what Stuart60611 has been saying :thumbsup:
How do you know so much about this stuff Stuart? Do anything related for a living?
Stuart60611
New member
You are correct. What I am saying is that when it comes to which organisms dominate the others in their battle to consume nitrate, it is generally true that the order of superiority is: (1) bacteria, (2) macro algae, and (3) microalgae. As such, the idea with the pellets is that you add nitrate to increase the bacterial mass which outcompetes microalgae for the added nitrate and also allows for greater uptake of phosphate as a consequence of the bacteria uptaking residual phosphate along with the additional nitrate. In systems with little nitrate, the bacterial mass' ablility to uptake residual phosphate is cut-off without the addition of nitrate pursuant to the redfield ratio or some variation thereof. Without adding nitrate, the only other way to export residual phosphate in a low nitrate system is GFO, other chemicals (i.e., lanthanum), or water changes.
Personally, I am attorney and do nothing professionally related. Throughout my life I have always had a proclivity for picking up a hobby and learning as much as I can about it. Over the last few years, aquaria has dominated my interests. In the past and continuing to the present, technology and investng have garned much interest. For me, one of the most enjoyable aspects of life is learning.:hmm3:
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TheFishMan65
New member
Sorry Stuart,
No wonder lawyers have a bad name
No wonder lawyers have a bad name
I know you meant, "I am attorney and do nothing professionally related with aquariums", but I cld not resists
Stuart60611
New member
Sorry Stuart,
No wonder lawyers have a bad name
I know you meant, "I am attorney and do nothing professionally related with aquariums", but I cld not resists
No, you are right. Many practicing lawyers really do not do anything "professionally related". :spin2:
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AMEN! For me learning and creativity is my fuel... Kinda like what No3 and Ph4 is to bacteria :lol2::lol2:
Cool study about uptake ratios of a little macro near and dear to our hearts. Apparently no Redfield ratio exists for macroalga. Tissue N and PO4 ratios changed in accordance to availabilty of each.
Take special note of the conclusion paragraph.
scientiamarina.revistas.csic.es/index.php/scientiamarina/article/.../595/608
Oh well. never mind. Gawd, I hate PDF files. And it won't let me cut and paste.
DJ
Take special note of the conclusion paragraph.
scientiamarina.revistas.csic.es/index.php/scientiamarina/article/.../595/608
Oh well. never mind. Gawd, I hate PDF files. And it won't let me cut and paste.
DJ
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