Waterfall Turf Algea Filter: CHEAP and EASY to build

[SantaMonica]

ALL of us are vastly overstocked.

And that's why the vast majority of folks who walk into LFS's have algae problems. This thread was created to help them solve that problem for cheap.

More than 560 watts of light? Are you kidding me?

No, you're kidding me if you thought you needed such a huge screen for such a small tank. This is for new readers: A 288 square inch screen, lit on each side with 288 watts (equivalent) CFL, is enough to filter a heavily stocked 300 gal reef. And, 288 watts equivalent is not 288 watts, it's about 53 real watts. But lumens are most important; the example bucket I started this thread with, and which is currently testing at the LFS, has 1250 lumens per side. The acrylic version I'm building will have 4000 lumens per side using T5HO's; this is very strong light (3 times the light of the example bucket), and only requires 96 real watts, total. And, it's only 1.5" away from the screen.

Yes I cleaned it properly and regularly

I'm assuming you mean once a week. But in a sink?

 

[Rngrdave]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13309485#post13309485 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 2_zoa
Rngrdave,

Your flushing system, You say is solid state. Does that mean that you got rid of your aqua lifter pump?

I'm still running it for now because I haven't cut the proper sized insert for the bottom piece (been busy with other things). When I turn the flow down on my pump I don't need the aqua lifter. It flushes itself... but when I turned the flow up to where I wanted it it would have a problem not breaking the siphon enough. This is because of the fact that the two siphon breaks are not far enough apart on the one I built. The more flow you use the more the siphon breaks need to be spaced apart.

Yes it does work without an aqua lifter pump... I just haven't gotten around to putting the spacer in the bottom of it to get it to work with the flow I want to use.

 

[miwoodar]

Lumens or PAR? If you're growing stuff PAR is what you should be looking at.

I've got to admit SM, my jaw hit the floor when I saw you recommend 560 watts! Watts and equivalent watts? Watts (ha-ha) that supposed to mean? It's PAR that you should be measuring my friend. Watts and/or lumens don't give you anything pertanent or useful.

I had 175 watts of 5.5K MH directly over my screen. The PAR would blow away anything that's been mentioned or posted in this thread so far.

 

[2_zoa]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13309915#post13309915 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rngrdave
I'm still running it for now because I haven't cut the proper sized insert for the bottom piece (been busy with other things). When I turn the flow down on my pump I don't need the aqua lifter. It flushes itself... but when I turned the flow up to where I wanted it it would have a problem not breaking the siphon enough. This is because of the fact that the two siphon breaks are not far enough apart on the one I built. The more flow you use the more the siphon breaks need to be spaced apart.

Yes it does work without an aqua lifter pump... I just haven't gotten around to putting the spacer in the bottom of it to get it to work with the flow I want to use.

I know i said that it is one more piece but.. from what i have read it is the way to go i have a spare pump for my nano and i want to use it. Is there info i can do the math on that you know of ? So i can get close on the distance of the siphon breaks. I think I saw that your plumbing is as close as you could get it on all the fittings. What size bucket is that you used? 2 gallon?

 

[spleify]

SM, are who are you working for, or who do you want to try and work for. You clearly have some type of monetary motivation for pushing this thing so hard, and to spend so much time on so many forums, pushing this.

I thought it was pretty clear that you wern't able to push you're business on RC.

 

[SantaMonica]

There is no business. My day job is promotions, so this stuff is easy and fun. And since my scrubber single handedly solved all my N and P and display algae problems that I previously went through two maintenance guys and over $10k to fix, and since it did it for the price of a pump, I'm pretty happy to help others folks do the same.

Matter of fact, $100 paypal to the first person who can post a link to anything aquaria related that I'm selling "as a business".

 

[miwoodar]

SM - Why no response to my PM?

 

[SantaMonica]

Just got back, will check now. I don't pm much.

 

[Rngrdave]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13310111#post13310111 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 2_zoa
I know i said that it is one more piece but.. from what i have read it is the way to go i have a spare pump for my nano and i want to use it. Is there info i can do the math on that you know of ? So i can get close on the distance of the siphon breaks. I think I saw that your plumbing is as close as you could get it on all the fittings. What size bucket is that you used? 2 gallon?

I started a new thread on how to build the auto-siphon tube. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=13311408#post13311408

I started playing with it some more and got it to work just fine without using the aqua lifter. In fact, I think it works better now that I got rid of it than it did when I had it. The siphon breaks quicker without the second pump being in the way...

After adding the airline hose as you will see in the thread, it didn't matter how you build the siphon tube. The airline hose allows you to adjust the height of the setup.

 

[Tang Salad]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13311390#post13311390 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SantaMonica

1) My day job is promotions, so this stuff is easy and fun.

2) And since my scrubber single handedly solved all my N and P and display algae problems that I previously went through two maintenance guys and over $10k to fix, and since it did it for the price of a pump, I'm pretty happy to help others folks do the same.

These two facts explain nearly everything.

 

[One Dumm Hikk]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13311390#post13311390 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SantaMonica
Matter of fact, $100 paypal to the first person who can post a link to anything aquaria related that I'm selling "as a business".

Another of your paypal offers? You offered me 100 bucks to show you where you said anything bad about anybody and when I did it, you hushed about it.

 

[One Dumm Hikk]

That's because the screens produce TOO many pods. And as I've said from the beginning, as does Mike and Morgan at IA, that you have to kill the pods before they eat the algae. Once a week. Even at this, I still have pods swarming around the display.

So, again, you are killing/removing all that FOOD that you said was so bad about other filtration methods. And you still don't find that contradictory?

Maybe. I'm also thawing my mysis cubes in tap, and adding that to the tank. But that's why I'm here... to test.

No, you are here to try to force feed the concept of an ATS.

Come on. You are making my point for me. Yes, inorganic N and P are food: Food for algae. I hope you do know this. To the beginners reading this: This is why the algae grows as it eats up the inorganic N and P, which is what your test kits read. Algae do not eat organic N and P, which is thus left in the tank to be consumed as food.

And algae is FOOD for other inhabitants of a reef. You condmened the removal of FOOD from the system yet you are doing precisely what you condemned. And you still don't find it contradictory. Amazing.

That's right. Organic (read: organic) N and P are in flake food, mysis, phyto, minced clams, pellets, live feeders, cyclopeeze, brine shrimp, daphnia, silversides, blood worms, plankton, krill, nori, prawns, worms, oyster eggs, squid, selcon, marine snow, and amino acids. That's why we want to leave organic N and P in the water. INORGANIC N and P (read: inorganic) is what we want to remove, and it's the main diet of algae (besides ammonia).

And that algae is FOOD for inhabitants of a reef. Perhaps you didn't read the post about clams closely enough. Or, you chose to conveniently ignore it. I wager on the second option.

That's right, I forgot I asked you before and you said you are getting ready to start making skimmers as a home business.

Nice. You took part of a sentence out of context. Nicely done.
What you AREN'T including is the fact that I said I would also build ATS'es for people if they wanted. I also have plans to build calcium reactors, guess that makes me anti-kalk. Phosphate reactors as well, must make me anti-refugium. Oh yeah, wet/dry filters as well. That must make me anti-LR. And sumps, that must make me anti-HOB. And HOB style filters as well, that makes me anti-sump. You argument is getting rather old when confronted with issues you attack the person instead of the issue.

 

[One Dumm Hikk]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13307448#post13307448 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aqua180
well your obviously against ats's, so why are you getting involved in this form? they both work fine, its just a mater if you go against the so called norm (skimmers)

I am not anti-ATS. I am not pro-skimmer. I am anti false information and SM keeps portraying an ATS as the end all filtration method and all he has done so far is to prove that if you over feed a tank that you can grow hair algae.

There are things that skimmers do that ATS can't do.
There are things that an ATS does that a skimmer can't do.

I have never said differently. Never even implied it. What I have said, repeatedly, was that there are better and more effective methods than an ATS without the drawbacks. Whenever I say that, I get a run around trying to get answers out of him.

Either he doesn't know the answer, and ignores them. Or, he knows the answer and won't post it because it shows the very thing he doesn't want shown.

 

[miwoodar]

This thread is little more than blatant self promotion be it for money or for ego. It doesn't matter which IMO. The fact that you put in the equivalent of a full time job managing identical threads on every single forum on the web is mind boggling and makes me believe it's for money. If you're actually doing any homework outside of turf scrubbing, which it doesn't appear that you are, then you might be in a position to end this spin game and coherently discuss the merits of this approach relative to the many others that are out there on the net.

I'm going to go find other playgrounds to play in. I'll browse this thread from time to time for kicks but other than that, I've said my piece. I'm done.


BTW - your tank looked a *lot* better when you were paying someone else to take care of it for you.

How about some before and after pics?
Before:
http://www.ratemyfishtank.com/friendemail.php/10522

And after:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=12971716#post12971716

 

[truebeliever71]

I've been following this thread with much interest (aside from the flaming) and would like to integrate this into my system. It looks like it is quite proven that it will solve the high nitrates and phosphates problem I am having and hopefully that will extend over to the high alkalinity as well.

In looking and thinking about the design aspect of it I would like to get the opinion of using a windmill concept. I would construct a box similar to what SM has illustrated but would use 4 upside-down v-shaped paddles on a wheel. This would give the tidal changes that the system appears to need for optimal performance, with any added hardware or cost.

What do you think?

 

[SantaMonica]

One Dumm Hikk:

You offered me 100 bucks to show you where you said anything bad about anybody and when I did it, you hushed about it.

You are dreaming. I did not offer "you" anything. It was to ANYBODY, on that other site, who could post a link to a single "bad name" that I called anyone. And, it was on this site a few posts ago, that I said: "$100 paypal to the first person who can post a link to anything aquaria related that I'm selling "as a business". I do this to prove to you delirious people that you are wrong. And no, not a single person, not even you, has even tried to claim their prize, much less receive it, because there was no name calling by me on that other site, and because there is no business product being offered anywhere. So, I won't be answering any more of your posts.

And for those readers that have had enough of One Dumm Hikk, or even Tang Salad or Miwoodar, you can do this:

1) Click "Report this post to a moderator" at the end of the post, on the right.

2) Click on the "My RC" button at the top of your screen, then click "Edit Ignore List", type One Dumm Hikk in the empty box, and click Update List. Repeat with Tang Salad, and Miwoodar.

Miwoodar:

The fact that you put in the equivalent of a full time job managing identical threads on every single forum on the web

I don't use the word Idiot very often, and never on this site, but today will be the first and hopefully the last. Miwoodar, you are an Idiot. Miwoodar, you idiot, my "full time job" is in radio promotion, a far cry from aquariums and fish and coral. The amount of time it takes me to respond to forums is just minutes per day, which is done while I'm on hold on the phone, or waiting for my next appointment. As for "other sites", yes, they too are worthy of receiving the same information that is posted on this site. As for being for money, yes, it's about the money I saved by building my screen. And as for the before and after pics, you might note that the "before" pics (in 2007) have no coralline at all; look at the back wall. That's because the P was heading to THREE, and the N was 50 heading to 100, before the big crash and the firing of the maintenance guy who caused it. I'm very glad I then learned to do it right myself.

Goodbye Miwoodar and One Dumm Hick.

 

[matt & pam]

Truebeliever71,

That is essentially the concept of the eco-wheel. If you add a moving part you may end up making this more complex. Mine has a teflon like bearing running on the wheel setting in an acrylic groove.

You can kind of see how it works here:

http://www.aquaticengineers.com/images/Image21.gif

 

[miwoodar]

Filtering information on RC by using the ignore list is a bad idea be it One Dumb Hikk, Tang Salad, or myself. None of us three are habitual flamers by a long shot. In fact, IMHO, it's not a good idea to put *anyone* on your ignore list.

I'm not going to call you names my friend. But, IIRC, it was only a few posts ago that you were bragging about how many lumens you were going to run your next system with...then watts versus real watts...then you actually accused me of washing my screens off in the tank....then you told me I didn't have enough light over my screens. And you're calling me that? I actually read Adey's book and IIRC correctly again, you have admittedly not. Hmmm. Of course, you're probably ignorring my posts so you're only seeing what you want to see.

As I've said in many of my posts, turf scrubbing can be very successful but needlessly complicated. Learn your options and don't hope for a 'magic bullet' be it turf scrubbing or any other method. Let your mentors be well rounded.

Cheers.

 

[InlandAqua]

Wow!
This thread has been like going back in time....at least 10 years!

The arguments against algae filtration (especially turf scrubbers) was a huge issue 10 years ago...as was deep sand beds...as was refugiums( which were originally used for pod growth not nutrient uptake) ...all three methods promoted at Inland Aquatics.
These ideas have been accepted, rejected, used , morphed ,...etc..you get the point.

Althought SMs' algae filter is not a turf scrubber it is an algae filter that will help filter because we all know how well algae helps filter.

Many people on this thread have said..."it doesnt matter what filter you use..as long as it works" EXACTLY!

And as we all know....no one knows everything about saltwater tanks...there are no experts.

 

[runningstix]

I've come up with a brilliant way of storing info. It is amazing! I have found complete success using these!