Wednesday is photo night
- Thread starter NicoleC
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NicoleC
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Still no losses. I think everyone has a headband now except a couple of my runts, and some are more orange than gray. My, my, they are aggressive. They are getting very territorial over the PVC tubes! The dark ones are more aggressive. Oddly, the pale colored ones are metamorphasizing and staying more pale colored. I wonder if they take after their mama -- who is fairly light colored any tends to yellow-orange with a more gray along her dorsal side. Their papa is dark orange leaning toward red, with no change in color on the dorsal side, and has more black and more defined stripes. He's a beaut -- she's not so pretty but I'd say is closer to normal coloration.
I have tried some crushed spirulina last night and F1 flake tonight, but I don't know if anyone has eaten it yet. I have seen some babies checkout some of the larger pieces, and one took a nibble, but then they moved on skimming the surface of the water. I waited for a bit and then fed the BBS. The smallest runts, I just noticed, have very red tummies. I think they are bottom feeding -- perhaps they have figured out it's food.
I saw a goby again -- maybe my only one -- he is fully settled now and looking fairly large. (Although not even close to the mass of week-old clowns.) Still no yellow yet, but he was using his pelvin fins to suction himself to the side of the tank. Development-wise, this is better than the last batch even if the numbers are weak! Also, the black dots in the body are back.
Funny, I have brown and green algae growing on the bottom of the goby tank. Water quality is there is great. I performed a 25% water change tonight because I was feeling guilty, but I don't really think I needed it. Now... how to grow algae in larval tanks faster...
I have tried some crushed spirulina last night and F1 flake tonight, but I don't know if anyone has eaten it yet. I have seen some babies checkout some of the larger pieces, and one took a nibble, but then they moved on skimming the surface of the water. I waited for a bit and then fed the BBS. The smallest runts, I just noticed, have very red tummies. I think they are bottom feeding -- perhaps they have figured out it's food.
I saw a goby again -- maybe my only one -- he is fully settled now and looking fairly large. (Although not even close to the mass of week-old clowns.) Still no yellow yet, but he was using his pelvin fins to suction himself to the side of the tank. Development-wise, this is better than the last batch even if the numbers are weak! Also, the black dots in the body are back.
Funny, I have brown and green algae growing on the bottom of the goby tank. Water quality is there is great. I performed a 25% water change tonight because I was feeling guilty, but I don't really think I needed it. Now... how to grow algae in larval tanks faster...
NicoleC
New member
Ah ha! There I was looking and thinking, "Gosh, I thought he was bigger than that an hour ago? This the size of that other one there... doh!"
I still have at least a big goby and a little one. I betcha the big one is eating BBS and the little one is still on rotifers. The little one is not all the way settled out yet.
I still have at least a big goby and a little one. I betcha the big one is eating BBS and the little one is still on rotifers. The little one is not all the way settled out yet.
NicoleC
New member
A few shots from the evening, Day 9. I am starting to think I make it through meta with no losses. I had a horrible BBS hatch rate today so they didn't get much this evening. I also fed some F1 flake and spirulina flake, and some rotifers. Hopefully the smorgasbord will get something in everyone's tummies.
NicoleC
New member
A couple dozen, Kathy. Not bad when only 50-ish survived to the first morning and all except a couple died in the first 3 days. I don't know why so many died the night of the hatch (not that it was a big hatch), unless my theories about then being in the egg too long are correct.
Jason -- last good batch I had about 30 gobies right up until day 24, where they all died off one by one until the last guy was lost on Day 30. This time my losses were earlier, but still heavy considering I started with more. I'm going to have to think about what Olin said about benign neglect... my first batch I didn't test water quality or do nearly as many water changes, and they did better...
Next chore is figuring out why my phyto cultures don't get any darker than a pale green.
Jason -- last good batch I had about 30 gobies right up until day 24, where they all died off one by one until the last guy was lost on Day 30. This time my losses were earlier, but still heavy considering I started with more. I'm going to have to think about what Olin said about benign neglect... my first batch I didn't test water quality or do nearly as many water changes, and they did better...
Next chore is figuring out why my phyto cultures don't get any darker than a pale green.
Peter Schmiedel
New member
Nicole,
if the agression reachs this level I believe for the health and quality of the fry it would be better to add more hiding space. Down side is of course that controlling them is way more difficult.
I plan to add some of my BTA early to the premnas I am currently working with. Soemtimes in Europe you find this clones of the green BTA - they are very small and should be perfect for this. But I only have regular red BTA.
Another idea is to use Chaetomorpha to provide ample hidding space and block sight on tankmates. I would also expect positive impact on the water quality if useing Chaetomorpha. Did one try that out and give feedback?
if the agression reachs this level I believe for the health and quality of the fry it would be better to add more hiding space. Down side is of course that controlling them is way more difficult.
I plan to add some of my BTA early to the premnas I am currently working with. Soemtimes in Europe you find this clones of the green BTA - they are very small and should be perfect for this. But I only have regular red BTA.
Another idea is to use Chaetomorpha to provide ample hidding space and block sight on tankmates. I would also expect positive impact on the water quality if useing Chaetomorpha. Did one try that out and give feedback?
jnowell
New member
There may be something to that benign neglect thing, I was just saying the other day that I felt like I had taken worse care of this set of clowns, and still have about 100 at day 11.
Peter, I have cheato in all of my fry tanks, it does help control the water quality a bit, but I rarely see any of the fry near it. I probably don't have enough in there, each bit is only slightly larger than golf ball sized. They spend more time with the heater and amomonia badge than the Cheatomorpha.
Peter, I have cheato in all of my fry tanks, it does help control the water quality a bit, but I rarely see any of the fry near it. I probably don't have enough in there, each bit is only slightly larger than golf ball sized. They spend more time with the heater and amomonia badge than the Cheatomorpha.
jnowell
New member
I'm hoping Kathy, only 2 losses this morning, so still very good numbers. On the phyto thing, I'm having a little trouble too. I loose about 1 out of every 5 bottles, and lost two yesterday while I was at work. My buddy (who I taught how to culture phyto) hasn't lost one yet, and his cultures are MUCH greener than mine (sound familiar Kathy?).
He leaves his lights on 24 hours a day, just because he never thinks about turning them off. The sad part, I MIX HIS WATER FOR HIM! He doesn't have Micro Algae Grow, so mix him up a gallon of sterile water with fertilizer, but no bleach. The gallon just sits there for a week, gettting little bits used out of it (he's culturing in 20 oz. bottles). Seems like some people can do everything "wrong" and never have a problem. I go through a gallon of bleach every 2 weeks, spent money on inline air filters, high powered grow lights, and filter floss, and I can't keep them from getting contaminated. I know things need to rest, but I'm seriously considering going with a 24/7 light cycle. I've heard all the arguments, and then I've SEEN the results of both. DT's plankton farm uses 24 hour lighting, I wonder what Randy Reed does.
< /rant >
He leaves his lights on 24 hours a day, just because he never thinks about turning them off. The sad part, I MIX HIS WATER FOR HIM! He doesn't have Micro Algae Grow, so mix him up a gallon of sterile water with fertilizer, but no bleach. The gallon just sits there for a week, gettting little bits used out of it (he's culturing in 20 oz. bottles). Seems like some people can do everything "wrong" and never have a problem. I go through a gallon of bleach every 2 weeks, spent money on inline air filters, high powered grow lights, and filter floss, and I can't keep them from getting contaminated. I know things need to rest, but I'm seriously considering going with a 24/7 light cycle. I've heard all the arguments, and then I've SEEN the results of both. DT's plankton farm uses 24 hour lighting, I wonder what Randy Reed does.
< /rant >
NicoleC
New member
LOL! Thanks for narrowing that down!
I have them in juice bottles (I guess they are 1 liter). The one that I bleached/dechlorinated is doing the poorest. I don't thinkit's bacterial contamination, because the cultures haven't crashed.
It's possible there's too much fertilizer -- I doubt too little. I've never seen any kind of real figures on what is the proper amount.
They are bubbling gently, and all are sitting under a CF table lamp... but they weren't doing better under the previous light.
I have to laugh. Ed told me not to get too cocky. Perhaps things are not as bulletproof as I thought. I have to admit, my own has not gotten as green as fast as I would like. I just replaced a bulb, so perhaps that will help.
Reminds me of when I was in college studying physical chemistry. My dorm mate could never get up early enough to get to class, he was a partyer, so he would photocopy my notes the night before the tests. And he would ace them every time. I , however, studied a lot , and every day, and struggled to get a C. Life is just not fair.
Which fertilizer are you using, and how much? I used 12 drops of f/2 in a 2 liter culture.
I have recently changed to a dry mix f/2 that I got from Reed, and I am not sure I mixed it up right. But it seems to be working.
It's not bacteria, if they are not crashing. Although I had one when I was starting out, that outcompeted the bacteria, and lived. But not for long.
Did you check for chlorine after you dechlorinated? The pet store sells test strips that I use. Expensive, but after you know the amounts of chlorine and dechlorinater that work, you don't have to test further.
Jason, A GALLON OF BLEACH EVERY TWO WEEKS? I am not even half done with the same gallon I've been using for the past 6 months. At 1 ml per gallon, that's a lot of phyto!
Reminds me of when I was in college studying physical chemistry. My dorm mate could never get up early enough to get to class, he was a partyer, so he would photocopy my notes the night before the tests. And he would ace them every time. I , however, studied a lot , and every day, and struggled to get a C. Life is just not fair.
Which fertilizer are you using, and how much? I used 12 drops of f/2 in a 2 liter culture.
I have recently changed to a dry mix f/2 that I got from Reed, and I am not sure I mixed it up right. But it seems to be working.
It's not bacteria, if they are not crashing. Although I had one when I was starting out, that outcompeted the bacteria, and lived. But not for long.
Did you check for chlorine after you dechlorinated? The pet store sells test strips that I use. Expensive, but after you know the amounts of chlorine and dechlorinater that work, you don't have to test further.
Jason, A GALLON OF BLEACH EVERY TWO WEEKS? I am not even half done with the same gallon I've been using for the past 6 months. At 1 ml per gallon, that's a lot of phyto!
NicoleC
New member
I'm using the dry F2 from Reed. I don't really know how to mix it -- the web site says 1 kilo makes 10,000 liters at F/2 strength. So that's what, 1 gram to 10 liters. 10 liters?! And me, still without a scale that measures hundreths of a gram...
I know what you mean Kathy. I also lack serendipity. Is it because I am incapable of not caring, or am I incapable of not caring because nothing ever happens the easy way with me? Ah well, it makes for a stressful life, but I wouldn't be half as good of a computer geek without that trait, and I suspect research biologists need it in loads, too.
I know what you mean Kathy. I also lack serendipity. Is it because I am incapable of not caring, or am I incapable of not caring because nothing ever happens the easy way with me? Ah well, it makes for a stressful life, but I wouldn't be half as good of a computer geek without that trait, and I suspect research biologists need it in loads, too.
jnowell
New member
I might be exagerating a little I am making water for my 8 2-liter bottles, as well as my friends 5 - 20 oz. bottles. In an attempt to stop the crashing, I have been rinsing every bottle with strong bleach, and then mixing water as Ed prescribed with 1ml per gallon and de-chlorinating before use. I have noticed that Prime seems to slow the initial growth by a few days. I tried one without the bleach in the water, and it grew very quickly, and never crashed. James' water that I make doesn't get extra bleach in the mixed water, because it has fertlizer already in it when I give it to him. His truly are bullet proof! No air filter, no bleach on the lines in the bottle, no bleach in the water, old used floss...etc. etc. But no crashes.
I'm starting to wonder how much the environemt has to do with it. Mine were in the kitchen (probably a more bacteria prone location) and i had a ton of crashes. I moved them to the new fish room, and they were fine until I added the 4 tanks in there with them, now they are crashing also. I have a new pre-filter on my air pump, pretty vigorous bubbles, an in-line air filter, I bleach everything, every time, and change the filter floss with each bottle. Yet still they crash...luckily James' do not, I bet I've used ten times more of his than he has.
A few things I've learned, start with a greener culture, and they crash less, I just started two nes ones with half phyto, half new water and they are fine so far. Keep the room cold too, mine are at 74, his run about 70, so that's another variable I have to consider. But the one thing i know is, the darker green they are when they start, the less prone to crashing, and the quicker they grow.
I am making water for my 8 2-liter bottles, as well as my friends 5 - 20 oz. bottles. In an attempt to stop the crashing, I have been rinsing every bottle with strong bleach, and then mixing water as Ed prescribed with 1ml per gallon and de-chlorinating before use. I have noticed that Prime seems to slow the initial growth by a few days. I tried one without the bleach in the water, and it grew very quickly, and never crashed. James' water that I make doesn't get extra bleach in the mixed water, because it has fertlizer already in it when I give it to him. His truly are bullet proof! No air filter, no bleach on the lines in the bottle, no bleach in the water, old used floss...etc. etc. But no crashes.I'm starting to wonder how much the environemt has to do with it. Mine were in the kitchen (probably a more bacteria prone location) and i had a ton of crashes. I moved them to the new fish room, and they were fine until I added the 4 tanks in there with them, now they are crashing also. I have a new pre-filter on my air pump, pretty vigorous bubbles, an in-line air filter, I bleach everything, every time, and change the filter floss with each bottle. Yet still they crash...luckily James' do not, I bet I've used ten times more of his than he has.
A few things I've learned, start with a greener culture, and they crash less, I just started two nes ones with half phyto, half new water and they are fine so far. Keep the room cold too, mine are at 74, his run about 70, so that's another variable I have to consider. But the one thing i know is, the darker green they are when they start, the less prone to crashing, and the quicker they grow.
