Weeds

[Chasmodes]

It really takes a committed effort to grow plants. So far, you have not had much luck with plants. What do you plan to do differently?

The smaller tank was supposed to be a "holding tank" for newly collected fish that turned into a display tank. I set up the tank, cycled it, then dumped the fish in. Then, I started adding plants and other critters as I collected them. It was kind of like I was trying to get to the correct end but after I had already set up a fish only tank. Once I break this tank down and move everything to the final display, then I will set this tank up again for a species tank (maybe seahorses, pipefish, or sticklebacks), or maybe just use it as a grow out tank for fish fry...

For the big tank, I'll start with the plants, mud, live sand (to seed store bought sand that I have sitting in my basement). Once I'm happy with that, then I'll add more critters and fish. During my first attempt, my hope was that the high fish bioload would supply enough nutrients for the macros to thrive. Instead, cyano and hair algae ruled the roost, because they were introduced, perhaps? So, in my big tank, I will have to dose the nutrients. Also, I will introduce the macros to the tank immediately as the tank cycles. Maybe that will outcompete the nasties. Another difference, as I said before, is much better lighting. After the tank sits fallow and the food chain is established, then I'll add the fish last. Sounds almost like your plan! I wonder where I got those ideas :beer:

I've always wanted my blenny oyster reef tank. But, when I started this venture years ago, it evolved over time to a desire to set up an entire ecosystem.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Starting out with good lighting is good! That all sounds good. A fish-less cycle too.

Everyone gets an algae phase. It's inevitable. Figuring out how to favor your macros, while removing algae, will enable you to win the battle.

 

[Subsea]

I wanted to elaborate a little more on some of the ideas, and methodologies for this aquarium.

First, let me say I wasn't a particularly good reef keeper. I came to the conclusion that I just wasn't up to it. It was too much like work to me. I wanted something beautiful to look at, but easier to do. So I tried something different-a fresh water planted tank. I had some success and I learned a lot about a whole, new side of aquarium keeping. I had a beautiful, planted display, and all was right in the world"¦

But, eventually I got the salt water itch again. This time, wouldn't it be cool to combine what I learned on both sides of the hobby? And do I really need to try to keep the most challenging creatures in the sea? How about something easier?

Algae is Mother Nature's way of telling us we need plants. Why argue? Why do we struggle against Nature? Wouldn't it be better to work WITH Nature? Using plants to balance with animals is an elegant solution to the biggest challenge of aquarium keeping-nutrient control. Algae scrubbers and refugiums are great, but why not put the plants right in the display? Why not make THEM the display? And couldn't we learn more about Nature if we used IT, rather than man-made devices?

What I wanted was just one big tank, chock full of nature, and low on external devices. I want to see if it is possible to assist nature in building an ecosystem in a box. I provide light, water movement, temperature control, food input and export. Nature does the rest. So, rather than buying a gizmo to solve a problem, I ask myself, how does Nature do it? How can I facilitate that natural process? How does one process influence another? How does Nature coordinate all these processes in functioning ecosystems?

So much to learn! I believe this naturalist approach to aquarium keeping has a lot to teach me.

What do you think? I'd love to hear from you!

Minimalist is a good word to sum up my maintenance schedule. That makes me a "œLaissez Fare" reefkeeper. Nature had billions of years to work out the details. I emulate success when I see it. I allow Dynamic Equilibrium to operate my ecosystem. Using aroggonite sandbed for passive calcium and trace mineral addittion when pH drops during lights out and in deep sandbeds. On the top end, carbon dioxide gas dissolves in water to form carbonate & bicarbonate alkalinity which combines with photosynthesis to form glucose which is nature "œcarbon pump".

Michael, in an earlier post you said macro was 560/30/1. How did you come up with that carbon number? When I was considering selling Red Ogo as a gourmet food, I sent a sample to be analyzed by an agricultural lab. Analysis validated 30:1 of nitrogen to phosphorus. However, my chemistry is not sophisticated enough to deduce carbon from individual elements.

Carbon is a perfect example of Dynamic Equilibrium. As alkalinity is consummed during photosynthesis, carbon dioxide solubility feeds carbonate & bicarbonate alkalinity. Carbon dioxide solubility is a two way street, meaning that when lights are out, macro produces carbon dioxide and consumes oxygen. Nighttime oxygen concentration in water has probably killed more healthy fish than all other things combined.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Patrick, rather than track C-N-P ratios down in my notes, I just googled it. Here's one:

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/0b27/2b27d5b6675583be637515e63832639335d7.pdf

"Unicellular algae such as phytoplankton and benthic microalgae have an elemental ratio of carbon to nitrogen to phosphorus (C/N/P) of approximately 106:16:1, known as the Redfield ratio. Benthic plants, including benthic macroalgae and seagrass, have a significantly different and more variable C/N/P ratio, with a median of 550:30:1, herein called the Atkinson ratio."

 

[Subsea]

Variable ratios is accurate. I was so surprised to see significant sulfur in Red Ogo, which in my opinion detracts from eating fresh. My ground water comes from a limestone formation, which was a shallow salt water inland sea. It is full of calcium, magnesium, & sulfur but void of N, P, Fe.

I recently purchased Reef Grade silicate for my sponges. When the drop of silicate concentrate hit the water, it immediately crystallized. I think that Edwards Plateau Aquifer is full of silicates. I will send water off to be tested.

 

[Subsea]

The smaller tank was supposed to be a "holding tank" for newly collected fish that turned into a display tank. I set up the tank, cycled it, then dumped the fish in. Then, I started adding plants and other critters as I collected them. It was kind of like I was trying to get to the correct end but after I had already set up a fish only tank. Once I break this tank down and move everything to the final display, then I will set this tank up again for a species tank (maybe seahorses, pipefish, or sticklebacks), or maybe just use it as a grow out tank for fish fry...

For the big tank, I'll start with the plants, mud, live sand (to seed store bought sand that I have sitting in my basement). Once I'm happy with that, then I'll add more critters and fish. During my first attempt, my hope was that the high fish bioload would supply enough nutrients for the macros to thrive. Instead, cyano and hair algae ruled the roost, because they were introduced, perhaps? So, in my big tank, I will have to dose the nutrients. Also, I will introduce the macros to the tank immediately as the tank cycles. Maybe that will outcompete the nasties. Another difference, as I said before, is much better lighting. After the tank sits fallow and the food chain is established, then I'll add the fish last. Sounds almost like your plan! I wonder where I got those ideas :beer:

I've always wanted my blenny oyster reef tank. But, when I started this venture years ago, it evolved over time to a desire to set up an entire ecosystem.

Kevin,
I have so much enjoyed following your Chesapeake Bay biotheme. With respect to a planted lagoon, why not plumb the two systems together. Use a UV sterilizer from your fish tank into your planted tank, then gravity feed back to fish tank. Nutrients from fish tank grow macro and pods in macro lagoon but UV sterilizer prevents introduction of parasite. Live food from planted refugium feeds fish tank.

 

[McPuff]

Nutrients from fish tank grow macro and pods in macro lagoon but UV sterilizer prevents introduction of parasite. Live food from planted refugium feeds fish tank.

Let's not say "prevent" but it will help to minimize the risk if operated properly. Still, there are a lot of parasites that would be able to navigate through the "portal" to each tank. But if you have clean fish anyway, there should be no concern.

 

[Subsea]

Let's not say "prevent" but it will help to minimize the risk if operated properly. Still, there are a lot of parasites that would be able to navigate through the "portal" to each tank. But if you have clean fish anyway, there should be no concern.

Let's consider that the only portal is thru UV sterilizer. Then using a 40W LifeGuard UV sterilizer with a flow rate of 250 GPH, what marine parasite can survive that dwell time at that intensity.

 

[Subsea]

Since we are addressing sterilization, how can desirable macro be considered clean of nuisance algae when transferring into tank.

 

[lapin]

I recently purchased Reef Grade silicate for my sponges. When the drop of silicate concentrate hit the water, it immediately crystallized. I think that Edwards Plateau Aquifer is full of silicates. I will send water off to be tested.

Let us know how that turns out.
I had asked "Mr Tyree" if I needed to supplement my sponges.

"Once the cryptic zone is established, some additions may be necessary. We are still experimenting with the best ways to supplement sponges."

So down the road I will need to add some stuff and any info you get about the water test would be cataloged for the future. I'm on rain water, but if we dont get any rain soon its gonna mean I have to buy well water.

Cheers

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Today I hope to finally get some things done. I had a setback or two, but I have a plan.

My jigsaw generates too much vibration, when trying to cut the overflow down. It came loose from the back wall, so I had to re-glue it. Today I'm going to try using a dremel with a cutting wheel. It will likely be slow, tedious work.

One step at a time!

 

[McPuff]

Let's consider that the only portal is thru UV sterilizer. Then using a 40W LifeGuard UV sterilizer with a flow rate of 250 GPH, what marine parasite can survive that dwell time at that intensity.

It's like Ian Malcom said, "uh, life...finds a way."

 

[Subsea]

It's like Ian Malcom said, "uh, life...finds a way."

"œNature finds a way" is exactly my sentiments. It is for that reason I don't bother with QT. I focus on reducing stress with stable systems and enhancing fish immune systems with live food.

 

[Chasmodes]

Wow, a lot has happened in this thread, really interesting stuff guys. Michael, good luck with the overflow. What was the purpose for cutting it down? Are you reducing the size, lowering the water level of the tank, or trying to make it more effective?

Kevin,
I have so much enjoyed following your Chesapeake Bay biotheme. With respect to a planted lagoon, why not plumb the two systems together. Use a UV sterilizer from your fish tank into your planted tank, then gravity feed back to fish tank. Nutrients from fish tank grow macro and pods in macro lagoon but UV sterilizer prevents introduction of parasite. Live food from planted refugium feeds fish tank.

Thank you Patrick. Right now, the tanks are kept in separate rooms, far apart,and space is an issue. The 20g high is a holding tank (QT) for inverts and macros now, and is fishless. My plan to is to rid any invert of macro that I collect and render it free from fish parasites by keeping it fish free for 6 weeks and then add them into the tank, hence the need for better lighting.

But, once I set up my big tank, that will free up the 20g long fish tank for me to convert it to a stickleback tank, and that sounds like it would be a great set up since young sticklebacks are pod hunting machine. Thanks for the idea!

 

[Chasmodes]

Hey Michael, the more that I think about it, your suggestion about me using a CO2 reactor makes much more sense. Even if well water has elevated CO2 levels, I suspect that it will off gas fairly quickly and stabilize, just that it would happen in my tank after each water change rather than a post RO off gassing tank. In addition, I'd need a lot of water changes to achieve the Atikinson ratio that you mention above. I'd be better off investing in the equipment. Thanks again for the suggestion way back in your other thread.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Kevin, I wanted to lower the water level and I wanted to lower the overflow to match, so water could flow in and out. It works well as an in tank refugium, as well as a good place to put high light loving macros.

I'm rooting for your success with plants! I'm sold on CO2 for sure. Plants are challenging. They need a lot of Carbon. 550-30-1.

 

[Subsea]

Let us know how that turns out.
I had asked "Mr Tyree" if I needed to supplement my sponges.

"Once the cryptic zone is established, some additions may be necessary. We are still experimenting with the best ways to supplement sponges."

So down the road I will need to add some stuff and any info you get about the water test would be cataloged for the future. I'm on rain water, but if we dont get any rain soon its gonna mean I have to buy well water. It goes straight into tank.

Cheers

Don’t buy just any well water! I will give you some of my well water with TDS > 1000 ppm.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Update. I got a little bit done today. I got the overflow/refugium and the fake wall covering it, cut down, to go with the lowered water level in the tank. But it came loose again. I decided that since it's not functioning as an overflow, I don't need it. I just installed the fake wall cover. Without it in there, there's more room for plants, etc.

Next, I reworked the mounting setup for the fake mangrove root/powerhead. I needed to lower it too, to accommodate the lower water level. I also attempted to repair the cracked root. We'll see how it looks tomorrow. The fake root is showing its age. I think I can keep it together but it'll be close. If it doesn't fall apart I'm going to repaint it to look more wood-like.

It's good to get some of the system fixes done. Not as sexy as the living elements but important. Sorry this is going so slowly. I'll keep plugging along, doing the dull stuff, until I get to the fun stuff.

Looking ahead, I wonder how the new version will differ from the original. Before, I was walking into an unknown situation. Now I have those four years of experience to build on. It will be interesting to see how it affects my choices.

 

[Chasmodes]

Great art takes time to complete, and those that appreciate great art are patiently looking forward to the unveiling

 

[vlangel]

I am glad that behind the scenes stuff is progressing. Its easy to get stalled on those chores but like you said, it needs done to move on to the good stuff.