Weeds

[Scrubber_steve]

My tank also cleared up yesterday. Interesting because I haven't really added anything within the last couple of weeks, but there seems to be less micro algae. I have also noticed some Coralline algae starting to grow on the rocks. All good stuff! Hoping to add some fish soon and some more macro algae.

Hi Michael, this is where I'm up to in your thread.
I haven't seen a post with your no3 or po4 levels.
I would have been more than curious,,, do you measure them?
Also, had you considered ozone by this time to help clear the water?

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Hey Scrubber steve. No I haven't measured them. I observe the tank. Since hobbyist test kits aren't particularly accurate, and I've been doing this for quite awhile, I don't feel the need. I am open to testing if I'm mystified, or trying to hit some number. I'd rather just observe and deduce.

No, I didn't consider ozone. I used what I had at the time, which was charcoal and UV. I also used UV temporarily, when I had dinos. Most of the time, I keep the gadgets to a minimum.

Now that I have a large population of 'living filters', I can rely on them more. I have sponges and hundreds of tiny tunicates and assorted other filter feeders. I had a plant melt-down recently, that clouded up the tank. They took care of it. I like to keep things very low tech and use Nature instead. That is the 'mission' of this tank, to see if I can let Nature and natural processes take care of things reefers have replaced with gadgets.

It's not that I don't appreciate a nice hi-tech reef. I just feel like I can learn more about Nature by relying on Nature more than technology. These days, with tech everywhere, I wanted a more analog experience. So my system stuff is very basic.

This Naturalist approach helps me to learn more about how plants and animals interact in ecosystems. I also learn a lot from smart guys like you, here on RC!

 

[Scrubber_steve]

Now that I have a large population of 'living filters', I can rely on them more. I have sponges and hundreds of tiny tunicates and assorted other filter feeders.

Cryptic zone ?

I had a plant melt-down recently, that clouded up the tank. They took care of it. I like to keep things very low tech and use Nature instead.

Have you considered a clam?
Watch this from 26:00 to 27:37, you'll find it interesting & possibly informative. https://youtu.be/-R2BMEfQGjU?t=1561

That is the 'mission' of this tank, to see if I can let Nature and natural processes take care of things reefers have replaced with gadgets.

I read an article in a reef magazine, back in the 90s, about a marine tank the author saw at a hotel in i think Asia? From memory he referred to it as 'the natural method'. It had a few fish & filter feeders, & coral, but relied on nothing more than an air pump for circulation (water movement for the live rock in the tank). Natural sun light too. About as minimalist as you can get, & considered somewhat amazing at the time.

I use to catch poddy mullet in the river for bait. Half a dozen in a bucket, drive to the fishing spot, cast out live bait. One day when we caught more poddy, couple of dozen, they died in the bucket barely after getting into the car. Not enough oxygen for that many, so needed a battery operated air pump. Technology just allows the boundaries to be stretched.

I'm not sure if any filtration equipment could be considered new or high tech?
Of course some may argue that my algae scrubber is high tech, because you can grow filtration algae in a more natural way - fuge - display.

This Naturalist approach helps me to learn more about how plants and animals interact in ecosystems.

You should watch this, if you haven't already. I'd like to hear what you think
All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace - Episode 2 - The Use and Abuse of Vegetational Concepts

I also learn a lot from smart guys like you, here on RC!

Thanks for the compliment, I have you fooled.

I don't know about smart. Opinionated yes. But I try to base my opinions on the available evidence & history. This can make me disagreeable with some, apparently

cheers
steve

 

[Scrubber_steve]

lookin better

 

[Scrubber_steve]

Nice work

 

[Scrubber_steve]

Even in Nature, seagrass beds can collect huge amounts of detritus, with the occasional storm cleaning them out.

while snorkelling, swimming, surfing, I've seen sea grasses with micro algae growing on them plenty of times. Almost seems the norm.
Next time i'm down the river I'll take some photos of the sea grass there.
Can't promise the micro algae though.:fun2:

 

[Scrubber_steve]

Three quick pics:

Where's the video already Michael ? :jester:

 

[McPuff]

No, I didn't consider ozone. I used what I had at the time, which was charcoal and UV. I also used UV temporarily, when I had dinos. Most of the time, I keep the gadgets to a minimum.

Michael, in lieu of ozone, do some reading on Oxydators. They essentially provide you with the same benefits of ozone, but without the potential dangers. They also require no electricity. So although it's another "gadget" it is very inconspicuous. People in Europe have been using these for decades yet they are quite rare among aquarists here in the US. Great for planted and reef aquariums. Anyway, I think you'll enjoy the discovery.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Hey Scrubber steve! I guess you could say I have somewhat of a cryptic zone or light gradient at the right end of the tank. I definitely got the idea from Steve Tyree's book, "The Environmental Gradient", to create an area with dimmer lighting for things that appreciate it, like sponges. My red macros seem to like it too.

I haven't really considered a clam-not a giant clam at least. From what little I know of them, it seems like they would compete with the plants for nitrogen. The video seemed to suggest that clams and other filter feeders could be employed to rejuvenate dead/dying reefs. Pretty cool.

I am very interested in another clam for my tank - the Lucinid clam lives in seagrass substrates, and through a symbiotic relationship with host (guest?) bacteria, oxidizes sulfates, which would otherwise make the substrate uninhabitable. Google clams and seagrass and you’ll see several articles. Mutualism is pretty cool.

I remember that tank. He used live rock and plants, in a kind of naturalist approach, simple set up. I agree technology stretches the possibilities. A well-executed reef tank is a thing of beauty. But for this tank, I wanted to see how well a low tech setup could accommodate my nature-boy vision. I’m not really saying anything in particular is high tech, just that my setup is lower than most. I wouldn’t say your algae filter is high tech, but maybe some would, so it’s all relative.

I watched a little of the video. I need to finish it. I’ll get back to you.

So you prefer well-informed over smarty-pants? It can be challenging to not ruffle feathers sometimes on these forums. I’ve struggled at times. I love the intelligent discussion whether I agree or not.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks for reposting the pics, Steve. It's fun to see where you are in the thread.

Yes, epiphytic algae and other stuff is pretty common. My army of Strombus snails keeps my seagrass pretty clean. I get some occasionally. I even get coralline algae on them sometimes, turning them pink. The mangroves are getting some too.

Yep, I'm lame. Still no video.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Hey McPuff! I just recently heard of Oxydators. I just googled it.

"Söchting Oxydators breakdown hydrogen peroxide into pure oxygen and water (2 H2O2---->2 H20 + O2) using a special catalyst. The Söchting Oxydator adds oxygen continuously and slowly to your aquarium. The additional oxygen helps provide oxygen for aquatic critters and the beneficial bacteria in your tank. The oxygen produced is almost immediately dissolved into the water so there are little to no bubbles produced. Söchting Oxydators produce no CO2, make no noise, and use no electricity making them a useful backup when the power goes out."

Seems like a pretty cool thingy. I especially like that very last point. Otherwise I'm not sure it would benefit my oddball tank. I have a lot of plant life generating oxygen already.

I do appreciate the tip McPuff! I enjoy hearing about new stuff.

 

[vlangel]

I am really enjoying the discussion lately in this thread. I need to make time to watch the videos posted and read up on some of the ideas presented.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Me too Dawn. Invigorating discussion!

 

[Michael Hoaster]

OK Steve, so I watched the whole video, "All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace - Episode 2 - The Use and Abuse of Vegetational Concepts". What did I think of it? I probably should take more time to digest it but I'll go ahead and take a stab at it.

One thing I found interesting was that the idea of Nature balancing itself became a sort of doctrine of underlying order, that was accepted without proof. "It was like the air", one scientist said. They just believed it. I think they got a lot of things right, like how different elements interrelate. But science got short circuited by feel-good concepts advanced by a few egotistical, charismatic scientists. Overall, the ideas were more idealistic and simplified than reality. A self-correcting, self-balancing Nature is a warm, fuzzy idea. It was depressing to see politicians abuse it to oppress populations. Also, I found the idea of 'Spaceship Earth' not far from my own ideas that Earth is like a very large aquarium!

Overall, I think it illustrates the folly of man, and a slice of time in scientific history. It's easy and perhaps unfair to criticize ideas of the past. What will future man think of our accepted scientific norms?

How does it relate to aquariums? I'm not sure, but I'll throw out some thoughts. We all try to reach balance in our tanks. But balance is in the eye of the beholder. A tank full of hair algae could be said to be in balance. So what we're really after is an idyllic model that stays in our own version of an idyllic state. But balance and perfection is fleeting. I have noted a few times in my aquarium-keeping history when my tank has 'peaked', and thought, "well it's all down hill from here." And it was! So, are all aquariums doomed to fail? I don't think so, but they will always need upkeep to maintain the ideal.

Scrubber steve, I'd like to hear your thoughts. Why did you post the vid? What point would you make that it supports?

I'd also like to hear from anyone else who watched it, and would like to weigh in.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

I've got two plants on the way! Cymopolia barbata and Codium. C. barbata is also known as Tufted Joint Algae. They remind me of the trees on the Flintstones. Very unusual and a bright lime green. Codium is also fun, resembling a coral or sponge. It is a range of greens, mostly darker. These two plants are natural seagrass bed inhabitants, so that's where they'll go. I look forward to scaping them in. I've also been transplanting more of the Petticoat algae into the seagrass bed, so it should soon be a tapestry of greens. As a bonus, these ground cover plants provide good cover for pods and micro stars, etcetera. It would be great to get a large, sustainable population of pods for the fish to hunt, between feedings.

The back wall is getting more colonized with algae, finally. It looks pretty good.

I'm happy with how I've transplanted manatee grass plants around the bed. The bummer is, they're all small right now, so you can't really see them. They have to get their roots happy, before they grow out the blades. It takes a while. So I wait. Spring isn't far off.

Some of the reds look like they may miss the blue light, that went out. I miss it too, and the dawn/dusk transition it provided. Guess I'll replace it.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

I got my new plants today. Another excellent order from live-plants.com. Decided to remove as much unwanted algae as possible from the seagrass bed beforehand. The codium and tufted joint algae went in after. It looks pretty good. The codium is very dark. I suspect it will lighten up over time, but we'll see. I'm not sure I have a nice, natural-looking arrangement yet, but I'll try not to disturb them. I'll get pics shortly.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

 

[vlangel]

Wow Michael, I love it. I think it looks amazingly natural and yet so beautiful. Your tank is really inspiring me to get to work on moving my system in that direction now that I am ending an era keeping seahorses.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks Dawn! I like the new plants. They do add to the natural look. Plus they are pretty unique looking, and add more green color to the mix. Hopefully they will thrive.

 

[vlangel]

Good luck with them. I too have found the green macro algae more challenging than the red.