What Can I Do To Encourage My Seahorses To Breed
- Thread starter attygarla
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Laura, I use up to 12 of these four litre jars at a time to raise the fry until about the four month mark when I transfer them to a rearing tank with sump.
The fry are removed from the tank soon after birth as I don't want them in tank water that other inhabitants have occupied. The sooner they get into new, parasite free water the better the chances of survival IMO.
I start off with about a hundred to a hundred and fifty in each jar when newly born. As they grow, I transfer them to other jars and reduce down to 75, then 50 and finally just 25 per jar.
Each jar uses a piece of rigid 3/16" air line tube to provide the motion, keeping the fry moving until they begin to hitch. (I don't use airstones)
I use greenwater in each jar to use up ammonia produced by the fry, and to feed the rotifers and bbs that I feed to them.
I do a complete water change on each bottle every other day, usually half the bottles one night and half the next.
I also use ClorAm-X in each jar and replace it with each water change, as insurance in case there is more ammonia produced than the greenwater can use.
I put hitches in after the first week.
I feed rotifers only for the first two weeks, followed by another two weeks using rotifers and bbs. After that month I use bbs only.
I think that's all.
Now, that being said, this is what is working for me. If you check out seahorse.org you will find a lot of different methods that have worked for hobbyists posting there. My way isn't the best or easiest, and you should check out all the ways before deciding on what might be best for you to try.
The temperature recommendation being low is to lessen the chances of bacterial infections which are a major killer of seahorses in tanks. I work to keep my no higher than 74°F.
laurarca
New member
OH RAYJAY!! I have seen your post before and that is where I got the greenwater idea!!
OK...so should I :
-keep them in a 5 gallon as there is only 50 or so?
-should I take out the liverock,inverts and plastic plant?
-I will take out the airstone...
-what do you mean as "greenwater"...is that the DT's I use?
-I only have frozen rotifers as I do not know how to get a hold of live...will that work?
-I will do a water change today and not use their parents water from their tank...I just thought it would be less stressful for the fry as that is what they were born in...
I am SO thankful you are helping me...I am in tears every month as I lose them all :-(
Do you think maybe the males are being over-bred as they deliver every month?
OK...so should I :
-keep them in a 5 gallon as there is only 50 or so?
-should I take out the liverock,inverts and plastic plant?
-I will take out the airstone...
-what do you mean as "greenwater"...is that the DT's I use?
-I only have frozen rotifers as I do not know how to get a hold of live...will that work?
-I will do a water change today and not use their parents water from their tank...I just thought it would be less stressful for the fry as that is what they were born in...
I am SO thankful you are helping me...I am in tears every month as I lose them all :-(
Do you think maybe the males are being over-bred as they deliver every month?
I got the idea from an old post on the org.
I didn't succeed with my 2 1/2 and 5g tanks that I used, even with siliconed in deflectors to direct the surface water across the tank to keep the fry from surfacing.
I personally don't want anything that has contacted water with live aquatic life before, in the nursery container. Just trying to eliminate all possibilities of problems. For my rearing tank and sump, the "live" rock in the sump was boiled for and hour, cooled, and then cycled the system before anything was placed in it.
I do have to add the rinsed live food and greenwater which can also be a source of bacteria possibly, but I do what I can to minimize everything.
I don't want small airstone bubbles to cause problems whereas the larger ones won't lodge or be ingested.
DT's is better (it's a blend of micro's) than the live nannochloropsis I grow and use but I can't afford the amounts I would be going through with water changes every other day, plus feeding the rotifers and brine that I grow. However, the nanno has been sufficient.
Haven't tried frozen rots but doubt they would work initially at least as the motion of the food I think stimulates a feeding response.
Also, dead food starts to decay as soon as it thaws, causing ammonia production in the nursery. I supposed it would work with better ammonia protection or more frequent water changes, IF THEY WOULD EAT IT.
As for live rots, you can start your own culture from cysts, like brine shrimp, or buy them already hatched. Google for sources of either, as I think Reed Mariculture supplies a lot of places, or you can buy from them, or Florida Aqua Farms sold me a vial with cysts in it. (looks like there is nothing in it almost, but it takes no time at all for them to multiply)
I used to feed the rots greenwater but now I've switched to using Algamac Protein Plus blended in water and added to their container.
The fry may already be subjected to parasites that are in the adults, but I don't want to risk any longer infection from tank water borne ones. Again, just trying to eliminate things to improve the odds.
You are not alone in that as probably all of us have gone and still go through it as we can't save them all.
I have seen that possibility posed before, but it might be true over a long period of time, but the adults my fry come from have a new birthing every 14 days.
My lights are on the fry bottles 24/7 but the cube tank I switched them to after 4 months is only lit 14 hrs a day.
I keep the lights on the fry bottles so the greenwater will stay alive and grow, using the ammonia the fry produce.
Just a warning, looking after the fry in the jars doesn't take me much time. If I do just 6 of the 12 jars in one night it only takes about 20 min. to a half hour as long as the new water is ready at the same s.g., temp, and pH.
It's all the other "backup" systems that are time consuming.
Growing nannochloropsis, growing rotifers, growing brine shrimp, enriching rots/brine, and cleaning all the containers has some hobbyists making selective picks of the best so they only grow out a few of the healthiest fry, taking up less room and time.
To give credit where credit is due, the hobbyists on the org, especially the ladies that helped me with e-mails as well as posts, are responsible for getting me as far as I have.
They kept encouraging me even as my failures kept piling up, and passing on advise that stimulated my thoughts to make my system work.
I keep the lights on the fry bottles so the greenwater will stay alive and grow, using the ammonia the fry produce.
Just a warning, looking after the fry in the jars doesn't take me much time. If I do just 6 of the 12 jars in one night it only takes about 20 min. to a half hour as long as the new water is ready at the same s.g., temp, and pH.
It's all the other "backup" systems that are time consuming.
Growing nannochloropsis, growing rotifers, growing brine shrimp, enriching rots/brine, and cleaning all the containers has some hobbyists making selective picks of the best so they only grow out a few of the healthiest fry, taking up less room and time.
To give credit where credit is due, the hobbyists on the org, especially the ladies that helped me with e-mails as well as posts, are responsible for getting me as far as I have.
They kept encouraging me even as my failures kept piling up, and passing on advise that stimulated my thoughts to make my system work.
laurarca
New member
Growing nannochloropsis?
growing rotifers?
enriching rots/brine?
I did at one time order live rotifers on ebay...problem being that I never knew when the male was to deliver, so they went sour...
Should I google how to grow the above or can you shed some light?
They seem to be devouring the BBS, but I always have them die anyway...I wonder if they are too big for them and they really aren't eating?
Ray...I would love to have this work and everything you have suggested so far is being done...Let up pray!!
Laura
growing rotifers?
enriching rots/brine?
I did at one time order live rotifers on ebay...problem being that I never knew when the male was to deliver, so they went sour...
Should I google how to grow the above or can you shed some light?
They seem to be devouring the BBS, but I always have them die anyway...I wonder if they are too big for them and they really aren't eating?
Ray...I would love to have this work and everything you have suggested so far is being done...Let up pray!!
Laura
First of all, I use evaporated purified water softener sodium chloride salt that I mix 10 parts of to one part of epsom salts and dilute to 1.017. This water is cheap and I use it for all nannochloropsis, rotifers and brine shrimp. While I don't use it for the fry, some is added to the fry container as nanno culture water.
I have 3 water bottles inverted with the bottom cut out and a rigid air line tube in it for movement. I used to use them for brine shrimp before I went large scale for the brine, but now I'm using them for rotifers. You can use smaller containers to suit your needs but it's advantageous to use tapered bottoms like these bottles or inverted pop bottles
Also, I used to use nanno for growing rots but now I'm using Algamac Protein Plus to grow them with so they are already gut loaded at all times. it saves on how much nanno I have to culture but means i do water changes more often than using live nanno.
Growing nanno is troublesome at times as it tends to crash if not harvested at the right time, or, it can be infested with rotifers even though my rots are nowhere near most of the nanno containers.
I always grow lots of extra to compensate for when crashes happen.
I use mostly Instant Ocean pails for growing nanno and four pails fit under fixtures I make with two twin strip fluorescent lamps.
I also have IO pails with clamp on lights, each with a 42w spiral compact fluorescent.
All pails have rigid tubing with lots of air flow to stir up the culture.
NANNOCLOROPSIS CULTURING
I enrich brine shrimp with either Algamac Protein Plus or Algamac 3050, depending on whether I want the fry to end up with more protein or more fatty acid. I just use inverted pop bottles for this.
I gut load rotifers every other feeding with Algamac 3050. They are already grown using Algamac Protein Plus. Again, just inverted pop bottles.
This pick shows two bottles of decapped brine cysts being hatched and one bottle of rotifers being gut loaded. (green bottle)
As I've mentioned, you would have to scale down everything to suit the fry density you wish to pursue.
I've read that many Reidi fry are large enough to feed bbs right off but I don't take any chances, plus I found a site that no longer is online but regarding commercial aqua culturing of marine fish that said survival was not as good with just bbs and much better using rots for at least a couple of weeks. No explanation was given though.
Forgot to mention, that for gut loading brine shrimp (as the fry get older) they can't be gut loaded initially as previously mentioned because they have no mouth or anus. However, about 24 hours after hatching out, they will have changed to the 2nd instar stage and now can be fed.
While adult brine can be gut loaded in about an hour and a half, very young have to be gut loaded in two 12 hour stages with a complete water change and replacement of enrichment material for the second stage.
BRINE SHRIMP CULTURING
Hope I haven't left anything out.
I have 3 water bottles inverted with the bottom cut out and a rigid air line tube in it for movement. I used to use them for brine shrimp before I went large scale for the brine, but now I'm using them for rotifers. You can use smaller containers to suit your needs but it's advantageous to use tapered bottoms like these bottles or inverted pop bottles
Also, I used to use nanno for growing rots but now I'm using Algamac Protein Plus to grow them with so they are already gut loaded at all times. it saves on how much nanno I have to culture but means i do water changes more often than using live nanno.
Growing nanno is troublesome at times as it tends to crash if not harvested at the right time, or, it can be infested with rotifers even though my rots are nowhere near most of the nanno containers.
I always grow lots of extra to compensate for when crashes happen.
I use mostly Instant Ocean pails for growing nanno and four pails fit under fixtures I make with two twin strip fluorescent lamps.
I also have IO pails with clamp on lights, each with a 42w spiral compact fluorescent.
All pails have rigid tubing with lots of air flow to stir up the culture.
NANNOCLOROPSIS CULTURING
I enrich brine shrimp with either Algamac Protein Plus or Algamac 3050, depending on whether I want the fry to end up with more protein or more fatty acid. I just use inverted pop bottles for this.
I gut load rotifers every other feeding with Algamac 3050. They are already grown using Algamac Protein Plus. Again, just inverted pop bottles.
This pick shows two bottles of decapped brine cysts being hatched and one bottle of rotifers being gut loaded. (green bottle)
As I've mentioned, you would have to scale down everything to suit the fry density you wish to pursue.
I've read that many Reidi fry are large enough to feed bbs right off but I don't take any chances, plus I found a site that no longer is online but regarding commercial aqua culturing of marine fish that said survival was not as good with just bbs and much better using rots for at least a couple of weeks. No explanation was given though.
Forgot to mention, that for gut loading brine shrimp (as the fry get older) they can't be gut loaded initially as previously mentioned because they have no mouth or anus. However, about 24 hours after hatching out, they will have changed to the 2nd instar stage and now can be fed.
While adult brine can be gut loaded in about an hour and a half, very young have to be gut loaded in two 12 hour stages with a complete water change and replacement of enrichment material for the second stage.
BRINE SHRIMP CULTURING
Hope I haven't left anything out.
ReefCrew is Canadian but you can order from Reed Mariculture or use their store finder to see if a store near you carries their products.
Reed Mariculture
Or you can order cyst from Florida Aqua Farms.
scroll down to "resting rotifers" or" live rotifer cultures"
Be sure to order salt water rotifers because there are fresh water rotifers as well.
As for enrichment, you can get Algamac 3050 from Seahorse Source.
http://www.seahorsesource.com/cgi-bin/shop/search.cgi?&category=Foods-Enrichments
They also have decapped brine shrimp cysts and live rotifers.
https://3kserver7.com/~frank/secure/agora.cgi?cart_id=6629516.20705*uY5jI4&product=LIVE_CULTURES
You can also get spirulina powder from Brine shrimp Direct that is good for gut loading protein in rotifers and brine shrimp, and it also can be used as food to grow rotifers and brine shrimp.
http://www.brineshrimpdirect.com/c1/c8/Spirulina-Powder-c63.html
Brine Shrimp Direct also sells rotifer cysts. (resting rotifers)
http://www.brineshrimpdirect.com/c193/Rotifer-Cysts-Saltwater-or-Freshwater-c194.html
Most of these sites can also supply you with starter cultures of nanno as well, but you might be able to get a starter culture from a hobbyist in your area because growing nanno is a fairly common thing in the salt water hobby.
Welcome to the hardest part of raising seahorse fry.:mad2:
Reed Mariculture
Or you can order cyst from Florida Aqua Farms.
scroll down to "resting rotifers" or" live rotifer cultures"
Be sure to order salt water rotifers because there are fresh water rotifers as well.
As for enrichment, you can get Algamac 3050 from Seahorse Source.
http://www.seahorsesource.com/cgi-bin/shop/search.cgi?&category=Foods-Enrichments
They also have decapped brine shrimp cysts and live rotifers.
https://3kserver7.com/~frank/secure/agora.cgi?cart_id=6629516.20705*uY5jI4&product=LIVE_CULTURES
You can also get spirulina powder from Brine shrimp Direct that is good for gut loading protein in rotifers and brine shrimp, and it also can be used as food to grow rotifers and brine shrimp.
http://www.brineshrimpdirect.com/c1/c8/Spirulina-Powder-c63.html
Brine Shrimp Direct also sells rotifer cysts. (resting rotifers)
http://www.brineshrimpdirect.com/c193/Rotifer-Cysts-Saltwater-or-Freshwater-c194.html
Most of these sites can also supply you with starter cultures of nanno as well, but you might be able to get a starter culture from a hobbyist in your area because growing nanno is a fairly common thing in the salt water hobby.
Welcome to the hardest part of raising seahorse fry.:mad2:
laurarca
New member
Oh boy Rayjay....I think I goofed....the seahorses are dwindling because I think they are ingesting the shells of the brine shrimp...because as you know I was not prepared, I am using regular hatching brine shrimp eggs...I turn off the pump for about 20 minutes and I can see all the shrimp swimming around. I use a turkey baster and pull in about a cup of BBS. I think tonight for the fisrt time I saw them choking and flinching on the tank bottom :-(....I am sure it is too late for this batch...any comments?
Laura
Laura
First of all, the gyrations they are going through are most likely signs of parasites I would guess. Mine have gone through this also in the early stages sometimes. I ride it out and it seemed to work OK.
Some people treat with formalin but I never had any luck with formalin, just more deaths.
Ingestion of cysts usually just means they plug up their digestion tract and can't eat any more.
I don't know how much you hatch at a time, but in my case, I decapp the brine shrimp cysts before hatching and this eliminates the problem re ingestion. If you are not hatching many at a time, you can store the excess decapped cysts in the refrigerator for a couple of day.
Or, you can hatch out a bunch and store the hatched ones in the refrigerator for a couple of days. The frig slows up their metabolism and they don't consume the egg sack.
I decap a tablespoon at a time but you can do less if you want.
In an inverted pop bottle, I put two cups of tap water and add the cysts which float on top initially. I let it sit for 1/2 to 3/4 of an hour and then insert the rigid air line tube and aerate for another hour and a half. This hydrates the cysts.
I then add 1/2 cup of bleach (no scented bleach or with additives of any kind) and let it keep bubbling for six minutes.
IMMEDIATELY at the six minute mark, I take the container to the sink, pour the cysts into my mesh net, and rinse in cold water for not less than four minutes.
After rinsing the bottle well, I add salt water and then add the cysts and aerate for 24 hours to hatch out the decapped cysts.
After hatching, I let sit for 5 to eight minutes (not too long or they settle and suffocate) and siphon off about 3/4 of the bottle, leaving the sedement and remainder for now. I pour the siphoned off brine through the mesh net and the water goes back into the hatching bottle and again, I let it sit for 5 minutes, repeating and siphoning until I have most out but not sucking up any residue from the bottom. (About 4 cycles I do it for, less if hatching smaller quantities)
Decapped cysts have a better hatch rate, avoid the problem of lodged cysts in the digestive tract, are sterilized to prevent unknown bacteria, known to be on cysts, from contaminating our systems, and make for much easier siphoning off as there are no floating cysts on top.
There is a residue that is mixed in with the live nauplii but it's harmless to your fish and most settles out in a few minutes time before you siphon.
I'm concerned that you use a baster to suck up the nauplii. Are you just squirting it into the fry container for them to eat?
Never let hatching water contact your system water.
Pour the removed water and cysts through your mesh net and then rinse the nauplii under tap water before you use them for feeding.
I buy my cysts from Brine Shrimp Direct who keep them refrigerated for longer maintenance and better hatch rate of the cysts. In hot weather, they have shipped mine with cold packs to keep them cool.
If you don't want to decapp, then hatchable decapped cysts are available from Seahorse Source.
Don't ever buy cysts off a store shelf as you have no way to know how good they might still be after long term room temperature storage.
WHEN REMOVING THE BBS
WHEN REMOVING THE BBS
ALWAYS TURN OFF THE HEATERS AND AIRATION SHINE A LIGHT AT THE BOTTOM OF THE CONTAINER THE BBS WILL SWIM TO THE LIGHT AND THE SHELLS WILL FOAT TO THE TOP SOME UNHATCHED EGGS WILL SETTLE TO THE VERY BOTTOM AND WHEN YOU DRIAN OFF YOUR BBS FROM THE HOSE AT THE VERY BOTTOM DISCARD THOSE UN HATCHED (BROWN COLORED EGGS) AND DRAIN THE BRIGHTLY COLORED (ORANGE ) BBS INTO A FINE NET AND RINSE FEED THEM W/N 12 HOURS FOR MAXIMUM NUTRITION AFTER THAT USE AN AIR STNE AND REFIGERATE AND FEED NANO OR OTHER FOOD THE REFRIDGERATION SLOWS THE BBS CONSUMPTION OF THIER NUTRIENT SAC FOR A FEW HOURS AND THEN THEY REQUIRE FOOD
WHEN REMOVING THE BBS
ALWAYS TURN OFF THE HEATERS AND AIRATION SHINE A LIGHT AT THE BOTTOM OF THE CONTAINER THE BBS WILL SWIM TO THE LIGHT AND THE SHELLS WILL FOAT TO THE TOP SOME UNHATCHED EGGS WILL SETTLE TO THE VERY BOTTOM AND WHEN YOU DRIAN OFF YOUR BBS FROM THE HOSE AT THE VERY BOTTOM DISCARD THOSE UN HATCHED (BROWN COLORED EGGS) AND DRAIN THE BRIGHTLY COLORED (ORANGE ) BBS INTO A FINE NET AND RINSE FEED THEM W/N 12 HOURS FOR MAXIMUM NUTRITION AFTER THAT USE AN AIR STNE AND REFIGERATE AND FEED NANO OR OTHER FOOD THE REFRIDGERATION SLOWS THE BBS CONSUMPTION OF THIER NUTRIENT SAC FOR A FEW HOURS AND THEN THEY REQUIRE FOOD
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